LordCobol

Join Date 08/2008

+12

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The bit in the dev journal a while back about spinning off parts of your territory as vassal/allies got me thinking -- lack of vassals was one of my main gripes im some other games.

Presumably vassals are almost like alles, but the vassal automatically votes for the overlord in any vote to determine planetary ruler, and his territory counts as part of the overlord's for determining when the overlord has enough to end the game. Also, probably the vassal is automatically at war with anyone who is at war with the overlord, but not the reverse. Vassals can have their own private little wars. Lots of room to tweak the details, this isn't isn't supposed to be a comprehensive list.

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Ideally both alliances and vassal/overlord terms can include gifts & tribute. Depending on my power and mood, I might tell an independent faction...

A: become my vassal and I will give you 'x' amount of some resource every turn forever (I am rich and trying to buy my way to the throne)

B: become my vassal and pay annual tribute of some resource you have lots of and in return I will give you an annual subsidy of something I have lots of.

C: become my vassal and pay annual tribute or I will squish you like a bug.

When I spin off some of my territory as a vassal, I can determine the starting terms, and they can't do anything about it except rebel. But favorable terms may rebellion really unlikely.

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Then, ideally, a human player can become the vassal of an AI faction, at least until it is convenient to rebel

Also, when/if anyone has time to get fancy with starting conditions, some factions could start really powerful, with some vassals in their pocket on turn1, and it should be possible for a human to start off as a vassal.

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Hawawaa
Raven X

This DOES bring up one interesting question at the end, can PCs become vassals to others? Either AI or other PC in multiplayer, that would be quite interesting.

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I don't see why PCs couldn't become vassals. I certainly hope this will be possible.

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Philocthetes

Join Date 10/2003

+152

... Then, ideally, a human player can become the vassal of an AI faction, at least until it is convenient to rebel ...

This seems like a very interesting strategic option, especially if it is possible without the player's (first) sovereign dying. Kind of a natural complement to a general dynastic strategy.

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It would be intriguing to have the PC become a vassal to the AI. In most games when that happens you lose automatically. It would be nice to have a game where doing that doesn't always mean you lose. Great idea. +1 to you for a good idea.

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FWIW, in my vision even vassals could have vassals, with no fixed limit on how many layers there can be -- vassals can be very powerfull in their own right.

I think it would be fun to start off under the protection of someone else, and see if I can outgrow him without rebelling.

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Like starting off as a duchy or count in Crusader Kings.

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Yeah, i found it rather odd that many games ended when you become a vassal. Which is kinda stupid. Since the game ended when you became a vassal, why even bother providing the option in the first place?

I hope WoM will allow you to become a vassal and still continue playing so that you can plot a rebellion later. Mua ha ha!! Or you could even have an alternate ending where your faction wins with you as one of the vassals. Not a perfect win for the player but still at least a decent ending.

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Philocthetes

Join Date 10/2003

+152

Quoting Lord Cobol,

reply 5

... I think it would be fun to start off under the protection of someone else, and see if I can outgrow him without rebelling.

That might require a custom campaign, unless setup options eventually include some sort of fast start where the turn 0 map already has established cities, etc.

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Hawawaa

Join Date 09/2006

+33

Dude I have always wanted this to happen. Hopefully AIs make their own AI vassals...

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Think about how awesome the multiplayer games would be...

So you have a team, with two or three subsidiary players ruled by one other player, and several teams just like it.

Not only would you have warfare, but you could also have vassals betrayed by other vassals at the behest of another "emporer", with promises of gold and vassals of their own.

Lords trading vassalages to other lords for peace, vassals rebelling against their emporer...

Ah, the intrigue!

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heheh ... I guess its similar to the team games in FFH i was trying to set up .... heheh.

In anycase, it will be interesting to learn my proficiency in this game once it comes out .... if it were FFH I think I can guess who would be ruling over who

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Dr Franknfurter

Join Date 08/2005

+22

Just thinking, these vassal ideas are good and I really hope they go in.

These are just potential suggestions for extra stuff

How about, with the quickstart options... being a vassal to an evil or good higher power?

getting some significant bonuses (+4 perks/trait points/reincarnate sovereign on attack with penalty/extra shard?). But having to send mana/gold/people to the higher power as sacrifice... maybe they could even claim a city of yours (your starting city when you have 2) and would initially have a strong hero defender. Forcing you to wait till later to even think of rebellion. Rebel and lose the tax penalty... maybe also shift your alignment. (I.e. good guy, gains 'charismatic, angelic, long lived' at the start... after killing the angelic god, gains 'angel slayer' turns evil, or can simply break free by out growing them but gains 'heretic' or some other trait. Needs balance... just want a way that you can't simply steamroll the AI controlling you for the bonuses.

Non higher power way would be to pick allies at the start of the game (costing civ points?) and being a vassal to another gaining you points in other areas, allowing you to potentially play a peaceful game... for the builders.

Random thoughts before lunch, still, hope to play at least one game as a vassal in the future.

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