Is This a Joke? » Forum Post by Captain Pat

I know right? I mean, it's like the CEO of the company whose game was not up to par actually wanted to give something back to the gamers who have stood by him for so long. Although in my case, I paid $70 to beta test War of Magic and get FE for free... and have a shiny pewter dragon and cloth-but-not-cloth map of Elemental. I don't know of any other company that gave me free stuff and two more games when the release of one of their games went south.

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"I don't know of any other company that gave me free stuff and two more games when the release of one of their games went south."

Wait... so you got something other than FE and knick-knacks for free? What am I missing here, besides the dripping sarcasm?

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I found another joke.

"By Captain Pat on October 5, 2010 5:30:48 PM from Stardock Forums

Hello,

I apologize if this is the wrong area to post bug reports or wanting a refund... (The only bug reporting I could find was for BETA).

Anyway, I've been very faithful to Stardock since the release of the GalCiv series. I've noticed since the release of Demigod, which is a fine game NOW, over a year and a half AFTER release. The release of Demigod was by far my worst experience with a PC game... until Elemental. Here is just one example of the cacophony of bugs this game launched with:

I noticed on release day of Elemental that mounted archers take 5-6 seconds to cycle their animation after each shot (during which the player could do nothing but watch). Considering mounted archers are doing anywhere from 2-4 shots per battle... this single bug made tactical battles take obscenely long, forcing me to downgrade my units and personal playstyle for the sake of saving time. I am using this example for reference because the forums are swamped with CTD's, interface problems, AI bugs, camera problems, and balance issues (which I've experienced dozens of times as well--my hope was actual animation seems more likely to be fixed sooner than later).

After a few games I stopped playing Elemental altogether, hoping like I did with Demigod (sadly), that Stardock would patch the game to a playable state quickly and efficiently.

So, I updated the game today (Oct. 5th) and created mounted archers just like I did one release day (August 24th)... guess what happened? The mounted archer animation was still bugged. (Surprise!) Some interface, city building, and camera issues were touched up (yay!) but the AI is still catatonic even on "ridiculous." (Ironically enough, it really is ridiculous).

I am insulted I payed $49.99 for this broken and often nonsensical piece of software that seems more like an ALPHA rather than a completed title. I had hoped that after the failure that is Demigod, Stardock would learn a thing or two about taking advantage of consumers for the sake of meeting deadlines.

Please Frogboy, (Remember me from Demigod?) I have had enough. I demand a refund, and that you stop releasing busted ass games only to fix them later with the money you make from the suckers that buy your unfinished games. I haven't been this disappointed with a title since Demigod. I'd rather play a 16 year old game (Master of Magic) than this insulting heap.

See you in a year and a half when this game might be half-way playable."

Good lord. All things considered, that last line really is quite the zinger under the current circumstances, eh?

Frogboy claims to have been "around digital distribution before digital distribution was a thing" Well, many of us were around Elemental: Fallen Enchantress before Elemental: Fallen Enchantress was a thing.

Do we finally get the game we payed for now?!

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I believe that anyone who bought War of Magic in 2009 gets Fallen Enchantress and a yet-to-be-named additional expansion for free. People who bought War of Magic in 2010 get Fallen Enchantress for free and everyone who bought War of Magic in 2011 I think get a discount on FE. I believe you had to have installed War of Magic through Impulse in those timeframes to get the stuff, although if you didn't and have proofs of purchase Stardock Support can probably help you out.

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Well, if thats true, that is great news. Thanks for finally listening to reason, Frogboy.

This almost makes it feel like we're actually customers and not all unofficial stakeholders in a software company.

Edited: Typo.

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I don't think you get the game for free if you got a refund. Nor would you deserve to.

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I didn't get a refund. I decided to wait it out... out of spite I guess.

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At the time it came out it was a extremely flawed at the time. However I have bought worse since. Stronghold 3, even witht he latest patches it is a pile of crap compared tot he first one. Heroes of Might and Magic 6, $50 for a demo version, game would not progress from the first episode. That is jsut two examples, there is far more out there. Most companies do not take ANY responsibility for their product which is wrong because of softwares no return policy. Stardock at least took responsibility, that goes a long way these days.

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joasoze

Join Date 02/2006

+39

FE is shaping up to be a good game. Lets focus on that

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Quoting joasoze,

reply 10

FE is shaping up to be a good game. Lets focus on that

YAY *waves arms*

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

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I am enjoying Homam 6 in its current state. Besides the tragic Uplay, that game has been flawless for me, and I am at 150 hours + played. Yeah, bought it on Impulse for $18...errr, Gamestop app...

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Well, I haven't tried FE yet, but I'll take your collective words for it... for now.

Boredpeon, I think the problem is you tried to play the singleplayer campaign in HoMaM VI. The scripted campaigns have always been lackluster in that series when compared to multiplayer. I agree with Mhantra and I'm at over 80 hrs played--primarily multiplayer and some skirmish maps vs ai.

To me, those types of turn based games with scripted singleplayer campaigns just don't compare to their more open ended skirmish and multiplayer. Try the Rise to Power skirmish map! I've probably played that one 10 times in a row and its still awesome.

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Nah the problem with Homam 6 was in the fact patches had to be written for each downloading company, ie Steam, Impulse, gamersgate, etc.. I had the Impulse version which had quite a few people who had the same problem of when you finished scenario #2 of map one it would not progress to scenario #3 of map one. That was not even the first issue either, the first being I own an Nvidia card and some idiot programmer did not fix the flashing cursor bug for Nvidia owners. I mean really, like Nvidia cards are not common? This was after the spending the first two hours I owned the game surfing through tech support forums trying to get it to run because once again the Impulse version patch was flawed so the game would launch the original version instead of the version it was updated to.

When you compare problems liike that to the "oh @#$%, my game crashes after 10-20 turns" that was with EWOM the bugs and flaws were very minor. Set your game to save every turn or eveyr other turn and it was playable, sorta. Stardock also busted their ass trying to fix those issues they had. Ubisoft took the "ignore it and it will go away" approach with Homam 6. I waited an entire month for a patch after purchasing before seeking a refund for Homam 6, which was refused, forcing me to get a refund through Mastercard instead.

When ya think about it it is almost somethign to be proud of when people are willing to put up with that much crap EWOM had wrong with it and they STILL played it anyways. Granted I think a large majority of the wanting to play was people trying to fill in that hole of a missing game type since Master of Magic. At least Stardock was smart enough to see that gaping hole and tried to fill it.

After being burned not once but twice buying games from long standing companies (Ubisoft and Firefly) that had very successful games I do not touch pre-orders anymore. Simply because I do not want to pay in advance for someone unfinished pile of @#$%. However with Stardock standing behind their products and taking responsibility for their products I do it for them. I pre-purchased both FE and Sins this year from them and I am satisifed with both products.

The thing that irritates me the most about unfinished products is the fact online retailers accept them. Companies like Steam and Impulse have the power to say "hey, give us a finished product, because the next time you send us an unfinished product we pull all your products." No different than what Wal-Mart did to Pepsi, Coke, and other companies, "if you want us to carry your product then you are going to put it on the shelf."

You cna joke around how much EWOM sucked, but when it comes to the ethics and moral responsibilities, Stardock is no joke. Which is very rare these days.

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Boredpeon, you realize Impulse was affiliated with Stardock for years, right? I didn't realize the devs had to patch each particular digital distributor's release... that doesn't really make sense to me. Are you sure that is true? Doesn't that still make Stardock look bad if your Impulse release of Homam 6 was more broken than others?

Also, you damn well know the problems with E:WoM were WAY more severe and numerous than "crashing every 10-20 turns" like you said above--(even that particular problem is pretty severe and embarrassing upon release). For example, the broken ai, dozens of animation/unit function bugs, broken/unbalanced tech trees, crashes, etc., etc., didn't even compare to the very minor release problems I experienced with Homam 6. I'm sorry yours was so different. If only you had purchased through Steam and not Stardock, like I did.

Anyway, the only glaring problems I had with Homam 6 upon release was that two particular units special abilities didn't work properly and some mass spell effects didn't apply the buffs/debuffs 100% accurately. All of these problems were patched within a month and I haven't had a problem since.

Furthermore, I own a Nvidia card (Geforce GTX 460) and never had graphics problems with Homam 6.

I pre-ordered my copy through Steam, and if what you're saying is true regarding the varying patches for different digital distributors, that once again makes Stardock look bad. You did purchase it through Impulse afterall.

Anyway, this thread has digressed quite a bit with people trying to deflect my original post by bringing up other games.

My point is, Elemental: World of Magic was the most ridiculously unfinished game I've pre-ordered and payed $50 for. I felt embarrassed playing it. Considering my great experience with the Gal Civ series and Sins of a Solar Empire, I held Stardock up to a higher standard than I probably should have.

I stumbled upon the pre-order info for E:FE and actually thought it was a joke. I expected a game developer that prides itself on releasing completed games and continual patches *snicker* to give FE to full price purchasers of E:WoM for free, considering it is (or SHOULD be) the game E:WoM was supposed to be.

If that is the case, then good job Stardock, that alleviates my everlasting bitterness a little. Please try not to screw it up again this time.

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Quoting Captain Pat,

reply 15

Also, you damn well know the problems with E:WoM were WAY more severe and numerous than "crashing every 10-20 turns" like you said above--(even that particular problem is pretty severe and embarrassing upon release). For example, the broken ai, dozens of animation/unit function bugs, broken/unbalanced tech trees, crashes, etc., etc., didn't even compare to the very minor release problems I experienced with Homam 6. I'm sorry yours was so different. If only you had purchases through Steam and not Stardock, like I did.

Because we are getting 2 complete games for free, and given the state of Fallen Enchantress right now, I am almost happy to have paid the cost of E:WoM for it alone. I still get another free one in a few years that I will get to enjoy as well.

It helps me to think of basically spending money to Kickstart FE, and treating E:WoM as a "proof of concept" for their engine. Even after two years of patching and adjusting, it is still so fundamentally flawed that I have a hard time considering it a game, but as a proof of concept it did its job just fine.

Now they are making their first actual game (FE) on the Elemental engine.

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Quoting boredpeon,

reply 14

After being burned not once but twice buying games from long standing companies (Ubisoft and Firefly) that had very successful games I do not touch pre-orders anymore. Simply because I do not want to pay in advance for someone unfinished pile of @#$%. However with Stardock standing behind their products and taking responsibility for their products I do it for them. I pre-purchased both FE and Sins this year from them and I am satisifed with both products.

You realize both FE and Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion are based off a first release from years ago (a release and 2 expansions for Sins, bringing it up to 3) that customer's payed money for, right? The first release of Sins of a Solar Empire was in 2009, the Rebellion stand alone expansion you bought this year had years of development and 2 other expansions behind it.

I don't see how it makes you feel fulfilled paying full price to essentially play a beta release for a coming sequel where they attempt to fix the broken game, and then charge you a SECOND time for what the game should have been in the first place.

What Stardock needs is more thorough testing and prior to release. Its really that simple. I hope they get it right with FE after the E:WoM beta (I refuse to acknowledge E:WoM as an official release) we payed $50 for.

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Quoting Malsqueek,

reply 16

Because we are getting 2 complete games for free

Somebody please explain this to me. What games? And how can you call them complete?

Are you refering to FE and the expansion? Again, how are those "complete?!"

Neither of them are complete and you admit to paying $50 for the proof of concept that is E:WoM. What you are saying literally makes customers stakeholders for Stardock. Stardock should be paying us a return on our investment.

Here is where you say "Oh but they do! with the semi-finished game 3 years later?!" Right?

That might work for some people. It just makes me feel like an idiot knowing I'm paying devs in advance to make a game I'll probably end up being disappointed with down the road when it is finally "finished" on the 2nd or 3rd expansion/re-release.

I work for a software company that develops products for hospitals and blood banks and is highly regulated by the FDA. We have to get things right the first time or people f$*#ing die. Maybe that is what is making me so biased towards Stardock's backwards method of software development.

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Quoting Captain Pat,

reply 15

My point is, Elemental: World of Magic was the most ridiculously unfinished game I've pre-ordered and payed $50 for.

I see you didn't pre-order Sword of the Stars II.

But anyways, I'd like to think that most of us who pre-ordered Elemental are very happy with Stardock giving us two free games... especially when you'd be hard pressed to find any other company out there that would do any such thing after a mis-step like War of Magic. Railing against Stardock for doing the right thing and calling for SD to "pay us a return on our investment" is unnecessary. Sounds like you're barking up the wrong tree.

I'm curious to see what you think would be "fair" compensation from Stardock, though.

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Jackswift85, you didn't seem certain in your initial post that those of us that pre-ordered E:WoM would be receiving FE and the expansion for free. You kept saying "I believe..." and "I think..." I can't seem to find an official announcement on that anywhere. That seems like compensation enough for me if it isn't another broken heap.

I think what bothered me the most and continued my angst, is that in Frogboy's infinite pride, he was simply in denial in 2010 and lashed out when hundreds of paying customers complained about how god-awful and embarrassing E:WoM was. He even locked my thread quoted above about wanting a refund and left a smart-ass comment.

Regarding "fair" compensation, these "free games" we essentially payed for with our purchase of E:WoM. I feel they are owed to us, as E:WoM is essentially the beta for FE because E:WoM sure as hell didn't have a meaningful beta as far as I'm concerned. I think Stardock is doing the right thing by giving us FE and the expansion for "free," but they really aren't "free." Do you see what I mean?

However, I'd like to see Stardock be a bit more thorough in beta testing and better at getting their releases a bit closer to being a legitimately finished product upon release without band-aid fixes and offers of "free" games down the road once they finally admit their game was total garbage.

Is that fair?

It would be great if hospitals paid my company in advance so we could then pay our coders to develop half-assed products in order to fix them years later after we see the results of our broken release--and then attempt to alleviate our mistakes by offering more "free" software (which may or may not be all that great). To me, that method seems like a crutch to release games which they know are broken/unfinished, only to fix them later and try to make themsevles look good by doing it. Get products a bit closer to being finished the first time around. I know they aren't so stupid as to think E:WoM was anywhere near finished upon release. That is all I ask.

Good thing Elemental: War of Magic didn't kill anybody (as far as I know)... but you've got to admit you wanted to die while playing it.

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I am starting to get why you have no karma. Perhaps you are reading to much into what people are saying. Complete in that context really means separate. I think and I believe is merely a polite way of writing. Any member of the community can tell you that those that preordered WoM get FE and the yet to be named expansion for free. I get why you are taking such a combative stance as you did get screwed on WoM. But instead of leaving you screwed, Stardock is trying to make up for it. They have no legal obligation to do so. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. Just download the free games from Stardock Central and enjoy them.

If you bought, Red Orchestra 2, Sword of the Stars 2, HoMaM 6, Unreal III, and a slew of other games that were terrible on release, you got screwed. None of them gave you an extra 2 games. Few of them fixed the game you bought. Many made alot more money than WoM. Now WoM at 1.4 is a decent game. You might not agree, but that is personal taste, not objective fact. FE is already shaping up to be a great game. It has no release date and no predetermined budget. They are trying hard to make the best game possible.

I invite you to play the beta and offer feedback. The difference with Fe is the development process. This time they have a full development team. Many of the greatest devs from GalCiv have been moved to the project. It is being led by Derek Paxton and Jon Shafer is at the least consulting on it. They have lots more money and time to make sure it is great on release. Stardock is putting alot of resources into this game in hopes of winning back the respect of gamers like you. At least give them a chance. Meet them halfway.

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When it comes to karma, I've actually found the theory of obtaining it very hard to achieve on these threads. The fact that someone has to go out of their way in a click le click world to actually mention your positive accomplishment is quite the expectation.

When it comes to spending the $50 on EWoM, if I had been aware of the product, I would have been right on board.....for the disappointment. As such, life (yes...that strang thing that happens when you are not in front of your computer) had kept me away for awhile and I totally missed the release and failure of the product.

I've been watching and totally psyic'd for a Master of Magic II ever since...welll....Master of Magic I. EFE is the closest thing I've seen to a MoMII and I heartily look forward to it's release.

To actually purchasing software before it's complete, I've NEVER done that before. It seems ridiculous as the customer then must trust the developer to comeplete the product properly. After being on these threads, and especially seeing the positive response from Stackdock right here....even to some of the comments I've made, I wholeheartedly believe that they will not rest until they've gone bankrupt or until they've succeeded in their task.

As soon as beta 4 is out, I'm buying the prerelease. This is a win win for me, as the beta 4 will be a game worth playing, even if Stardock doesn't finish the game, and if they do...EXCELLANT.

+1

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Quoting seanw3,

reply 21

I am starting to get why you have no karma.

*sigh* Is this some lame attempt to discredit my opinion? I could care less about "karma" on these forums. I haven't frequented them except for the passed three days. And seanw3, I'm assuming you didn't read all of my replies on this thread.

As far as "meeting them in the middle" goes, if you read what I said above, you might understand. I'll post the main points here again for your convenience:

"I'd like to see Stardock be a bit more thorough in beta testing and better at getting their releases a bit closer to being a legitimately finished product upon release

Quoting Captain Pat,

reply 20

Jackswift85, you didn't seem certain in your initial post that those of us that pre-ordered E:WoM would be receiving FE and the expansion for free. You kept saying "I believe..." and "I think..." I can't seem to find an official announcement on that anywhere. That seems like compensation enough for me if it isn't another broken heap...

...I think Stardock is doing the right thing by giving us FE and the expansion for "free," but they really aren't "free." Do you see what I mean?...

...However, I'd like to see Stardock be a bit more thorough in beta testing and better at getting their releases a bit closer to being a legitimately finished product upon release without band-aid fixes and offers of "free" games down the road once they finally admit their game was total garbage...

Is that fair?

Get products a bit closer to being finished the first time around. I know they aren't so stupid as to think E:WoM was anywhere near finished upon release. That is all I ask.

Not sure how I can meet them in the middle any more than this. Stardock still has my $50 after all.

Anyway, I wash my hands of this. Again, it is cool of Stardock to give E:WoM customers FE and the expansion for free. However, I'd be lying if I didn't honestly feel like it was owed to us. It isn't the customer's fault they released a broken game.

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Quoting GFireflyE,

reply 22

I've been watching and totally psyic'd for a Master of Magic II ever since...welll....Master of Magic I. EFE is the closest thing I've seen to a MoMII and I heartily look forward to it's release.

Really? Ever heard of the Age of Wonders series? Age of Wonders: Shadow Magic in particular was the closest I've ever seen to Master of Magic.

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You feel entitled to two free games and will receive them. I guess there is nothing more to discuss.

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Seanw3, you still don't get it, but thats okay. Its not your fault.

Quoting Captain Pat,

reply 23

I'd like to see Stardock be a bit more thorough in beta testing and better at getting their releases a bit closer to being a legitimately finished product upon release.

I'm not going to try and change your stance on things, but at least read what people write before saying there is no more to discuss. I've been playing the FE beta quite a bit this weekend and it is leaps and bounds better than E:WoM was 2 years ago, but FE still has many of the same memory leak problems, uninformative/clumsy UI, and silly animation bugs that people have been reporting for 2 years... good thing its still in beta I guess.

Quoting seanw3,

reply 21

...They are trying hard to make the best game possible...They have lots more money and time to make sure it is great on release. Stardock is putting alot of resources into this game...

Its great that you're a fanboy, but just how can you speak for them like this? Where are you getting this information and how do you expect someone that has been continually disappointed by this company to believe this? Because you have +86 karma?

Not everyone has the same faith in this company as you do. Please, Seanw3 show me the way.

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