It was never meant to be a big nerf. The point was to reduce the extreme effectiveness of the trait so that you would say, well I can live without it, and pick another trait.

I agree, remove brutal nature, please!

Leave them as is.

Juggernauts are one of the very few AI units that I approach with caution.   A stack of Juggernauts is about the only thing outside of dragons I'll run away from unless I'm using my "A" stack.  even with the "A" stack I expect to take losses.

Unit limits are only for the special resource units, at least at present, not for the special units that factions can train/build. I'm also generally opposed to any flat unit limit - three juggernauts might be plenty when I have three or four cities on a small map, but if I have ten or twenty on a large map it isn't really worthwhile (unless I'm really pushing the stack of death concept). I'd rather that they be limited by how many you can afford to field (and how many you feel are worth fielding), not by some arbitrary cap that someone made up for no particular reason.

Also, with the special resource units, you'll notice that the cap is per-resource. If I manage to get three or four dragon lairs in my domain, then I can have three or four dragons. If I have half a dozen ogre lairs, then I get eighteen to twenty-four ogres for my army. On top of that, the special resource units are usually either weak and numerous (darklings/wildings) or powerful and few in number (ogres, trolls, dragons), and don't cost any upkeep (with the notable exceptions of Knights of Asok, which are too expensive for what they give you, and Mercenaries/Hunters, which are garbage units). If juggernauts had a cap of three per city, it wouldn't be terrible (though I still don't agree with capping the number of units you can field by any means other than your economy's ability to produce and maintain them).

I also don't think that nerfing the juggernauts is really necessary. Human players can learn how to handle them (both on the controlling and on the receiving end of things), and the AI players don't currently know how to handle any units really well anyways.

I don't want to nerf Jugs, I just like the idea about giving them a bit more flexibility. 

For me they are nice, but very limited - primarily in terms of mobility and defense.  Which isn't necessarily a bad thing.  But I would like to reduce their power, keep maul and add mobility - so they don't hit as hard, but i can use them more often.   Or alternately, reduce their power and add some defense so I don't have to heal them as much.

Sorry, it's just that the set of 'remove Brutal Nature' posts and the suggestion to limit the number of juggernauts available caused me to think this was a 'nerf juggernauts' thread. Changing the traits a bit to make them more appealing relative to one another is fine with me.

Also:

[quote who="Kalin" reply="0" id="3286711"The end result is a slightly nerfed base Juggernaut unit, 50% less atk (Brutal nature nerf)[/quote]

This sentence in the main post is somewhat funny if it isn't realized that you're referring to a subtractive amount (200% -> 150%). "Slightly nerfed - it only does HALF the damage it previously did."

It's more like 300% -> 250%. With its base weapon (20 attack), its attack now starts at 50 instead of 60 (you can get better axes later or switch to maul for even more). While it certainly IS a reduction, you barely even notice it since it's already doing so much, especially with maul activating.

Completely understandable. As I explained in my OP, I mainly did it because I saw the AI hurting its own units way too often while I was testing it out (it's pretty easy to lure the AI, so you can get several jugs to practically kill themselves on throwaway units), but if the design is to reward tactical positioning and strategy, then that's fine. Maybe toss on some extra bonus into Uncontrolled Rage or something to make it more tempting (it's a bit pointless if the base Jug already has splash).

it's being checked in as 1.1 vanilla