Edwin99

Join Date 07/2006

+22

[Quests] Quests, Dungeons and Heros

I find the few quests and trease locations in the game be immensely "boring" - bring army, visit quest location, collect loot.

I would like to see;

a. Multi-level quest locations - surface levels that an army can enter and a linked dungeon level tactical maps restricted to sovereigns, heros and summoned creatures. Defeat the creature(s) at the surface level so your adventurers (no army units) can enter the dungeon level.

b. Large dungeon/cavern maps, aka Diablo populated with monsters (sometimes randomly selected). Give me battles that are a real challenge. Perhaps, a dragon lair where the champions and sovereigns must defeat the dragon without the aid of our 1000 point army. A maze with treasure guarded by creatures. Not the same boring battle maps - but interesting maps that only champions can explore.

c. Riddles, puzzles and conversational interactions in the quests. Make real conversational trees. Not just yes/no answers - where the player always chooses yes. Decisions trees with real consequences - the princess is missing, she has fled her betrothed. Do you return her to her bethrothed or do you accept her pleas to your service. If the later the betrothed will make war upon your kingdom for taking his fiancee. If you return her she will be forced to marry a lord she does not love and the lord she weds will now control two kingdoms, not just one.

d. Some heros (farmers and merchants) should refuse to enter dungeon areas. You can insist that they go; however, they may take leave of your service. Others; adventurers, willingly seek them out.

e. Give champions and heros the opportunity to select skills (talents) that will aid them while exploring dungeons and caverns. Aka - Hidden Movement (so they can approach a dungeon creature and gain first strike), etc.

In summary; an expansion pack focused on adventuring, dungeoneering and quests.

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The only things that would need to be added are: a method to select a tactical map for an encounter (maybe possible, but if so it is not used) and a way to limit who can be in the encounter. Multi-level can be emulated by having a dialog to select to proceed to the next layer I would imagine.

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Hmm, yeah. An army "filter".

The dungeon fast checkin lane for "4 soldiers or less". =P

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In the JRPG Resonance of Fate, dungeons were a series of rooms--or tactical battles in Elemental terms. The party would clear a room, and then move on to the next one by standing on a glowing arrow at the opposite end of the room, which loads the next tactical battle, as you make your way toward the end of the dungeon. In some rooms there were a lot of mobs, in others bosses, sometimes both, sometimes just treasure chests, sometimes two glowing arrows in the room where the dungeon branched out, and it was a simple and effective way to handle dungeons that would require little in the way of additions to the existing game engine.

My problem with army size and dungeons is the opposite. I usually have one hero and one or two cheap squads running around clearing creeps and picking up potions and treasure chests, then once in awhile they stumble on a spider lair that cc's my best squad with webs and then wipes everything else with ease. It would be nice to have some indication of the difficulty before agreeing to the quest.

And maybe for dungeons, just skip armies--I mean it is a dungeon after all, there is only so much space and air--and just allow heroes and the sovereign to enter. The player would have to outfit and level some of the heroes to be tanks and some to be dps'ers. I wouldn't necesarily put a cap on the number of heroes. If they want to have an easy time bringing in 12 heroes, that's fine, and they suffer the costs of having to recruit and outfit so many heroes, and the opportunity costs of not having the extra heroes elsewhere doing other things.

Overall I thought the Quest of Mastery was pretty good. It had the current general problems with tactical battles, but other than that was a nice little adventure and I'd like to see more of that sort of thing. Anyway, combined with Sarog's egg it was better than the campaign IMHO so I don't know why Stardock didn't make THAT the campaign. You could have the quest of mastery exist independently as it's own campaign and also as a victory condition within the single-player game. (Also the Relias campaign wouldn't have been a bad victory condition in the single player game--it just would need to be harder.)

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Maybe you could enter such a dungeon with any kind of units - except that the unit would be temporarily reduced to a max troop size of 4.
And maybe you could only have a limited number of units as well, maybe 6 instead of 12...

That would allow "challenge dungeons" while eliminating the micromanagement of maintaining separate dungeon and battle armies that would be useless for the other purpose.
And "normal" units could level up in dungeons even though not all of them could enter at once.

That would make champions stronger in comparison and make them far more important in dungeons while less effective in open field battles.
Sounds about right...

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Quoting ,

quoting post

I find the few quests and trease locations in the game be immensely "boring" - bring army, visit quest location, collect loot.

I would like to see;

a. Multi-level quest locations - surface levels that an army can enter and a linked dungeon level tactical maps restricted to sovereigns, heros and summoned creatures. Defeat the creature(s) at the surface level so your adventurers (no army units) can enter the dungeon level.

b. Large dungeon/cavern maps, aka Diablo populated with monsters (sometimes randomly selected). Give me battles that are a real challenge. Perhaps, a dragon lair where the champions and sovereigns must defeat the dragon without the aid of our 1000 point army. A maze with treasure guarded by creatures. Not the same boring battle maps - but interesting maps that only champions can explore.

c. Riddles, puzzles and conversational interactions in the quests. Make real conversational trees. Not just yes/no answers - where the player always chooses yes.

d. Some heros (farmers and merchants) should refuse to enter dungeon areas. Others; adventurers, willingly seek them out.

e. Give champions and heros the opportunity to select skills (talents) that will aid them while exploring dungeons and caverns. Aka - Hidden Movement (so they can approach a dungeon creature and gain first strike), etc.

In summary; an expansion pack focused on adventuring, dungeoneering and quests.

a. In a way, it already exists.

The low level wolf quest (with the chest key) makes the key appear with monsters. First you defeat the monster that appears on the location, then you have the "alpha wolf" battle inside the quest area.

This is one of the more interesting quests for low levels.

b. Heroes only and 1 on 1 combat quests are a great suggestion.

c. I'm not so sure I like riddle quests for the same reason I didn't like the sphinx riddles in AoW. The riddles repeated themselves.

No matter how many you place, eventually it will be a matter of how many games you played so far and not a quest that centers on your current game.

However, the option for such a quest should be available for custom maps and campaigns.

d. I'm against that on, since I want the ability to train all heroes regardless of their bonus.

I also want to train the merchant as a mighty warrior by giving him the proper stats and tools. Seeing a 10th lvl hero with 25 str, full armor and a sword refusing to enter a cave because he is scared is kind of weird.

e. This is less relevant to quests and more to champion development, but yes, I'd like to see many abilities and unique stuff for heroes.

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Some additional suggestions for quests:

- A quest that requires minimum stats to activate or finish.

Examples: a quest where the hero requires high charisma to persuade a merchant to donate his rare book collection for the common cause of the kingdom, or a cave blocked with a large rock requiring strength to move.

- Quests that fork into several options depending on your choice, each with a different path and reward (will you help the witch from the north or south?) .

- Simple enough, I see quests that give all kinds of resources, but why not arcane and tech knowledge?

- Hired help - A hero with minimal level of X that you choose from your group (except the sovereign) disappears for several rounds and returns with a reward for his help.

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I really like the idea of quests that with decisions that have a real impact on the game.

Example A: Rescue and Return the Princess #1

When the princess is rescued she asks to serve your sovereign; A) Do you accept her offer and trigger a war with the kingdom of her fiancee or do you return her and thus seal an alliance that makes the rival kingdom twice as strong.

Example B: Demon Crystal

A giant white crystal was stolen from the forehead of an ancient statue. I are asked to recover it to prevent a great curse from affecting the lands of ember. You recover it. Do you return the crystal to the statue or do you sell it?

If the crystal is not returned the statue continually spawns rogue demons that join into an army that ravages the cities of ember. If you sell it you gain 6000 in coin.

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