If #1 is implemented ... it NEEDS TO BE RETROACTIVE!!!!

#2 ... Possible, but only certain stats and traits, for instance completing the "Save the Fencing Master" quest could grant the "Fencing Mastery" tech ... allowing champions to buy "Fencer" or "Fencing Master" upon level up.

#3 ... possibly equipment linked to techs, but it might be better if the level of "fancy items/ armor" you can buy in the store depends on your Adventuring tech level. And there would still be plenty of items non-attainable in this way. (but plenty that ARE ... that are obv better than their bland warfare counterpart)

Well, I personally think that your HP should depend on 1/5 your constitution multiplied by your level

similarly, your base essence score should be 1/10 your intelligence  multiplied by your level

obviously base essence would equal current essence + used essence (zero sum) ... while extra essence (gained other than level up) wouldn't be counted.

In this way essence is still permanently spent ... but the deciding factor  is intelligence (a permanent stat that remains EVEN if you spend all your essence) rather than putting points "into essence."

I disagree; its lame when an archmage hero is easily assassinated in the first round because they have low defense and con.  Its fine for them to be weak in melee, but defense and con don't just effect melee, they are also needed to stop them from instantly dying to magical attacks (which wizards should be resistant against!) or bowfire.

I think gaining a level should always make you a little better at everything; or at minimum more hit points.

I think something like health = constitution + constitution/10 per level.

Another thought:

Bodyguards tech for adventurers; lets them be "merged" with a party-size unit.

Agree w/ Bodyguards ... but are we sure this should be an Adventurer tech?

and I like a bit of specialization + Higher Levels should most always be stronger.

Thus ... little perks the higher up you go.

Things like Max HP being Constitution + (Con/5) * level  would help this a lot.

i guess the way i see it, is that really the adventuring tech should for the most part affect adventurers.  i think that most of all the champ and sov upgrades should come from here.  i also agree with bdmoore, i think that when building characters you need tradeoffs, this way you can get champs to work together for greater effect.  put a wizard, 2 fighters and a thief together or something.  this is where the strategy comes in, being the guy getting attacked by those, you would have to find a weakness and exploit i, using your own combo of champs.

If its not retroactive it just encourages Front-loading.

Think about Endurance in Morrowind ... the ONLY improvements from Morrowind -> Oblivion was the fact that HP increases were retroactively added + streamlined enchanting (everything else was a downgrade)

Non-retroactive additions is just ANNOYING (although I agree that its playable and do-able)

Ah ... the fact that its a tech ...

Opportunity Cost.

But yea, the tech is slightly more feasible being non-retroactive ... while Essence and HP not so much

I suppose "base essence" could be (Wisdom/10 + Intelligence/10)/2 + Starting X stat ... if you want it to be less tied to Intelligence.

Whether starting essence is = to level 1 Wisdom or level 1 Intelligence ... perhaps the average of Int and Wis would make the best Essence gain modifier. (that way its harder to invest in ... being practically 4x harder to raise than max HP)

Of course ... essence does A LOT more than HP

and both should be the mark of a high level Champion.

So your first few levels, no matter what you'll only gain 1 or 2 essence per level ... and 2-4 HP per level. (assuming scores of at least 10 in all stats)

Hmm ... perhaps after a certain Constitution score is reached you get a slight amount of HP regen? Like +0.5 HP per combat turn per 20 constitution?

I agree that bonuses would be retroactive.  Which is why a "10% health bonus to heroes" or similar is easy; it doesn't give a bonus to whatever health they have when you research the tech, it is a global modifier that lasts forever.  If your hero had 12 health when you research it, they'll have 13.12.  If they later gain +3 health, then they'll have 16.5.  The 10% is a modifier applied to the base, and the game still tracks the base.

The advantage of researching it first is that it boosts your stuff now.  Same with any other tech; if I research a warfare tech now vs later, the effect is the same, the difference is that if I research it now I get the benefits immediately.

Agree that these things (including bodyguards) make sense in Adventuring in that Adventuring should be about boosting champions.

A possibility with wisdom/willpower; have it effect magical resistance, and mana recovery rate.   Eg: mana recovery rate is wisdom/10 per turn.

Just a hp boost would be reasonable.  If ranged units were toned down, this would help.

My problem is that it seems a waste of time to try to develop a champion for combat, because they're going to be rapidly outclassed by a party/squad of grunts, and because of the poor scaling of damage vs hit points (damage so high that alpha strikes are crazy).

As I've stated elsewhere, its totally whacked that three 5/2 grunts in a party are as good as a 15/6 monster.  Instead, they should just use their level 5 attacks more times against the 6 defense, and they should lose members (temporarily - for the combat duration, not their max at full health) as they take damage.

If a melee champion were actually scary, then it would be worth investing in strength/dex.

yep, tasunke i agree with your assessment.  i think that is the way it should go.  but by raising con you would raise your HP right?  or by raising wisdom, perhaps your mana as well?

in traditional rpgs your HP gain per level is based on your Con modifier, so the more Con you have the more HP your hero gains on a level up

Where as Cha usually gives you better modifiers in negotiations and better prices in stores (currently it just gives better prices when hiring heroes). But it could also be used to modify diplomatic capital production thus giving the bonus to negotiations

Wis is traditionally common sense and divine might but since you play as a wizard and not a cleric i don't see wisdom as being potentially useful to your hero, but it could be used to augment healing and regeneration of HP per turn?

Int traditionally effects how powerful a spell you can learn and how many spells you can cast so essence could just be tied into Int and spell research could be modified so that you must reach a certain level of Int to cast the more powerful spells...and since I haven't seen a use for the magic shards as of yet they could reduce the level requirement needed for the spells tied to their affinity (This way you wouldn't be forced to spend your levels ups on both Int and Essence just to be a decent spell caster)

Str and Dex are already being used in their traditional roles so no input for them

I'm saying it should be based solely on stats, no free HP or anything upon a level up

HP per level tied to your Con modifier
Essence tied to your Int Modifier

ect

if Wis controls how much mana then Int should effect regeneration per turn

• Constitution (CON): Constitution is a term which encompasses the character's physique, toughness, health and resistance to disease and poison. The higher a character's Constitution, the more hit points that character will have. Constitution also is important for Fortitude saves, the Concentration skill, and fatigue-based general checks. Constitution also determines the duration of a barbarian's rage. Unlike the other ability scores, which render the character unconscious or immobile when they hit 0, having 0 Constitution is fatal.
• Intelligence (INT): Intelligence is similar to IQ, but also includes mnemonic ability, reasoning and learning ability outside those measured by the written word. Intelligence dictates the number of languages a character can learn, and it influences the number of spells a preparation-based arcane spellcaster (like a Wizard) may cast per day, and the effectiveness of said spells. It also affects how many skill points a character gains per level, the Appraise, Craft, Decipher Script, Disable Device, Forgery, Knowledge, Search, and Spellcraft skills, and bardic knowledge checks.
• Wisdom (WIS): Wisdom is a composite term for the characters enlightenment, judgement, wile, willpower and intuitiveness. Wisdom influences the number of spells a divine spellcaster (like clerics, druids, paladins, and rangers) can cast per day, and the effectiveness of said spells

the traditional roles as i stated