Kalin

Join Date 03/2006

+29

Outpost Logistic Suggestion

Just had a chance to watch the twitch stream replay (dec17) where Brad was talking about possible changes to outposts usage of logistics, so I just wanted to throw this out there:

1. Have resource improvement not cost logistics. I agree with Brad, intentionally not building on resources seems a bit odd (given that you probably want every bit of advantage you can get against the SK). Sure, it's a choice, but it really just makes lesser resources seems insignificant (although I suppose you could make all of them important and awesome as well).

- AND -

2. Have each city provide 1 free outpost "support", with the capital providing an extra (so 2 free outposts at the start). However, once you go above the free support, any extra outposts starts costing you logistics to maintain. Basically, this allows you to quickly reach out in the early game to grab some resources without crippling your logistics (with the first 2 free support) and provides some flexibility on city building locations (best tiles and using the free outpost to grab resources). However, if you want to setup large defense nets of outposts, you start incurring logistic losses... which makes sense, basically you're choosing between defending outposts and a defending unit. The key, however, is to communicate this clearly to the player, perhaps via some pseudo-resource at the top that clearly shows how many outpost you have versus how many you can sustain for free, and how much logistic it is costing you (basically a middleman resource for outpost support). This would also rewards good city placement/planning with some free outpost support.

Yes, it is the "both" option. Still, it's the most reasonable solution without requiring drastic changes.

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I agree with first change - if outpost cost logistics, resource buildings should not. Now we have double taxing with both consuming your logistics.

And i do not see clear reason for the second change. For quick start there is additional logistics, and you can choose how you spend it. I see no need to additional complexity here.

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For the 2nd change, it's not about the logistic cost at the start, but rather its a compromise between being able to build outposts for defense or not. The reason outposts cost logistic now was because earlier people could spam a ton of them to take down a lot of your enemies and became a bit cheesy. Them costing logistic has made that almost impossible. Having some free outpost supports and making extras cost logistic allows you to build SOME for defense and makes sure you put those to good use, as opposed to just spamming them everywhere like before.

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Just had this inspiration while playing around...

As an addendum to #2, if implemented, it would be awesome if you then sprinkle some extra outpost support into the Guardian skill tree (like divine favor in the Priestess'). This could give the Guardian a tower defense-esque aspect to her game play, as it would synergize particularly well with her geoscaping abilities. Basically, instead of raising mountains to seal yourself off (kind of bad given the time limit aspect of SK) or to protect shards (kind of cheap), the Guardian can instead focus on reshaping the land into a maze, funneling the numerically superior SK army into their death with an array of powerful, well-placed towers at key choke points (all the while hunting him down with her own army). This allows her to turn geoscaping from a traditionally strategical defensive maneuver into an offensive one. A particularly unique style of play designed for those who enjoys building outposts.

Similarly, another sovereign (Priestess? Tinkerer?) might be made further unique by not having any outpost support for free (but makes up that lacking elsewhere).

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mqpiffle

Join Date 10/2010

+44

Just give two extra logistics at the beginning of the game.

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Quoting mqpiffle,

reply 4

Just give two extra logistics at the beginning of the game.

Again, the suggestion is not about the logistic cost at the beginning of the game. The point is to make building outpost as defense viable. The reason the capitol gets 2 is simply a compromise between each city getting 1 free outpost support (which seems a bit too little) and 2 free outpost support (too many). Just giving out some free logistic has other implications (namely, you would likely build other stuff instead of outposts)... and might be a work around on smaller maps while being almost meaningless on larger ones. In fact, if implemented, you would likely want to REDUCE the logistic you get at the beginning (that, however is something you'd have to play test and balanced out).

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The trouble currently, in my opinion, is that towers are currently implemented in a very simple fashion. The towers are used to defend against SK and to expand roads. The grid is 4x4 for most sovereigns and not particularly worth the logistic cost. It certainly shouldn't cost logistics. The difficulty of tying towers to number of cities is that some maps have few building spots. Each city would necessarily need to be able to build four towers (for each direction) to be optimal in defense as towers are currently implemented.

Towers aren't just used for defense though and it would be ideal is towers were more complicated and not upgraded by pioneers and more like Fallen Enchantress: Legendary Heroes (FE:LH). I'd have less problem with limiting towers if their uses were greater. As current, I can't even hide my troops in a tower (and if another minor faction sits on it, then I can't even upgrade it or use it). As currently implemented, I'd hate to see any limitations of towers because the game is dependent on expanding.

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a0152570

Join Date 06/2014

+49

While i like some of these ideas i am bit confused. Aafter many hours of play time (on normal and normal+1) i have not really had any long term logistics problems. Short term yes, but that's part of managing your game and your strategy. In all my games, by the time i am ready to go after SK i typically have 5-12 logistics points available. Early game strategy to keep up with logistics it to spawn new settlements and only concentrate on logistics buildings.

Thralls(?) (logistics Robers) can be a real pain and my biggest gripe is many new settlement sites have zero essence so you can't use the the spell to eject them. Also i had games where the Inspiration spell (?) to remove them never became available to me (I hated when this happened).

I have only had to "intentionally not building on resources seems" as a short term choice early on while managing limited log points. My gripe here is i forget and need to hunt down the ones i skipped later in the game when i need them. **** I feel stupid having played so many hours, but can someone tell me what crystal resources are for?

I spawn outposts all over the map: 1- capture resources; 2) Road building for fast travel to distant areas. 3) Mega defensive network around Shards and cities. I have had as many as 10-15 (or more) on small & medium maps and have not been starved for LOG points. It did take planning to build them up though. I don't mind the first spawn of an outpost coat a Log Pt. but it would bother me if the upgrades did. >>costs one for the pioneer but you get it back when you build the upgrade.

Has anyone had an outpost attacked by the SK's I never have so i ignore defensive upgrades. Suspect it must be coming in future beta.

[quote who="Natasin" reply="6" id="3514056"]
....... spots. Each city would necessarily need to be able to build four towers (for each direction) to be optimal in defense as towers are currently implemented.

Exactly what i currently do depending on the terrain and probable threat direction.

[quote who="Natasin" reply="6" id="3514056"] ..... As current, I can't even hide my troops in a tower (and if another minor faction sits on it, then I can't even upgrade it or use it). As currently implemented, I'd hate to see any limitations of towers because the game is dependent on expanding.

Actually you can (not refined) , Just station you troups on the outpost and hit GUARD

Different Outpost "types" with different abilities MIGHT be something to consider but not sure it would be worth the dev cost vs game play excitement.

E.g. Mil outpost - better offensive/defensively, auto spawn archers defenders like a city does.

Sight/road net outpost - Cant capture resources, no upgrades

Resource outpost - a expansion module to increase AOC to improve sight and capture a resource that may be just 1 or 2 tiles away.

Just food for thought.

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a0152570

Join Date 06/2014

+49

SORRY , don't know how i screwed up the quotation area in my previous post. Some of my reply is in the quote area and some of the quote in in my reply area. .. just call me a dummy!

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Hit guard on the tower. Well that's good to know. I'd be nice if the tower had a UI like Fallen Enchantress though.

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