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taltamir
taltamir
Join Date 01/2006
+34

How would you structure the mechanics of city type changes?

September 17, 2012 7:26:16 AM from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

So you conquer a city that is a fortress and want to convert it into a town. Rather then raze and rebuild it would be nice if there was an option to initiate a construction project to convert it.

How would you suggest such a thing work from a mechanical perspective?

Method 1:

I think it should put the city into "conversion mode" which:

1. Deletes all current build orders.

2. Demolish all specialized buildings.

3. Cooldown of 1 turn per city level.

4. Open the new specialization choosing menu but NOT give you the bonuses you choose right away. Rather, the specialized buildings (the ones that give the city its special bonuses like the oracle or farmers market, etc) would be queued (And nothing else but them can be queued).

5. When last city upgrade building is built, resume normal operations.

Method 2:

An alternative and simpler method is to just calculate out a cost based on city level and "construct" a "city conversion". When conversion is finished scrap all specialty structures as well as city level bonus giving structures and activate normal city levelup interface.

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taltamir
Kongdej
Join Date 01/2012
+58
Reply #1 September 17, 2012 9:56:00 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I like the idea though, I see a complication with some buildings being in silly locations after half a town being razed, but  I want this feature too.

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

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taltamir
KingHobbit
Join Date 02/2010
+3
Reply #2 September 17, 2012 12:33:32 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums


I would be for this as well.  I want to build the world how I wnat to, not how some guy I just conquered.  They clearly didn't know what they were doing.

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taltamir
UmbralAngel
Join Date 06/2010
+15
Reply #3 September 17, 2012 6:02:15 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

If the problem is that the AI is choosing specializations unwisely, than thats a separate issue that can be addressed.

 

I think its fine to lock you into a choice, letting you flip flop waters down the strategy. If you want to choose the specialization, then build your own cities or capture them before level 2. 

 

I am just pointing this out because while it may seem like more fun it will probably end up being less fun. If you insist on modding in this feature for example, I would say that your suggestion seems okay. 

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taltamir
seanw3
Join Date 12/2007
+141
Reply #4 September 17, 2012 9:41:53 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums


I think an interesting part of the game is dealing with the new city types that other Sovs have chosen before you conquer their city. I don't think a change should be allowed any more than you should be able to rechoose a hero's traits. But as some people might point out, I am playing with a slightly more competent AI when it comes to choosing city specializations.

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taltamir
Tuidjy
Join Date 08/2010
+80
Reply #5 September 17, 2012 9:55:37 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I'm with seanw3 and UmbralAngel on this one.  This isn't badly needed.

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taltamir
taltamir
Join Date 01/2006
+34
Reply #6 September 18, 2012 12:59:39 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Can you explain to me what logical explanation is there for me to not raze the fortress and build a school or a market?

And it can already be done it just requires razing the city and then building a new one... go mass murder. And doing so also destroys the useful structures like workshops and merchant stalls.

It makes less sense to destroy and rebuild then it does to just have a conversion project queued and there is no reason why said conversion project can't be costly and time consuming. Its not flop flopping if it takes 10 years to convert a city from a fortress into a college town (conclave) or a manufacturing hub (town)

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taltamir
Tuidjy
Join Date 08/2010
+80
Reply #7 September 18, 2012 1:39:12 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I'm not saying that it is a bad thing to have.  I'm just saying that it is a minor thing... which would require quite a bit of effort to get right.  I mean, you would have a new way of issuing the order, a new state to be in, etc.  It looks like a lot of effort for a small payoff.

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taltamir
Kongdej
Join Date 01/2012
+58
Reply #8 September 18, 2012 8:11:25 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting seanw3,
reply 5

I think an interesting part of the game is dealing with the new city types that other Sovs have chosen before you conquer their city. I don't think a change should be allowed any more than you should be able to rechoose a hero's traits. But as some people might point out, I am playing with a slightly more competent AI when it comes to choosing city specializations.

I for one love tooling my empire for my needs, and hates seeing the captured cities new pointless choices in level ups (halfway because 2/3 of level up choices are rubbish).
I want to be in control of my empire, how it does, what it build, and if I have to kill a dozen hundreds of citizens in the process... Well its for the greater good!.

It should by no means be an automatic retooling from lvl 5 fortress to a lvl 5 conclave just like that, in the contrary I should spend 3-5 turns lowering the population and city level to that of a level 1 or level 2 city and start over.
(Which will usually make it a non-viable choice for level 5 cities, but still decent for level 2 and 3 cities.)

I know you don't want to use that, but is that reason enough for it not to be implemented for me?

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

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taltamir
taltamir
Join Date 01/2006
+34
Reply #9 September 18, 2012 8:23:05 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting Kongdej,
reply 9
It should by no means be an automatic retooling from lvl 5 fortress to a lvl 5 conclave just like that, in the contrary I should spend 3-5 turns lowering the population and city level to that of a level 1 or level 2 city and start over.
(Which will usually make it a non-viable choice for level 5 cities, but still decent for level 2 and 3 cities.)

An interesting proposition.

So you think the best method to do it would be an ability to slaughter population until the city "delevels" to a point of your choice? (level1 generally)

mmm, there are sacrifice spells that reduce population already. Do they also delevel a city?

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taltamir
Kongdej
Join Date 01/2012
+58
Reply #10 September 19, 2012 6:05:15 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting taltamir,
reply 10
So you think the best method to do it would be an ability to slaughter population until the city "delevels" to a point of your choice? (level1 generally)

mmm, there are sacrifice spells that reduce population already. Do they also delevel a city?

1: I would not call it slaughter, It's just a sudden lack of food in the stores...

2: No I don't think so.

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

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taltamir
taltamir
Join Date 01/2006
+34
Reply #11 September 21, 2012 10:35:52 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

So... I never bothered with raze and rebuild before because I always win via super sov... which is even worse in 0.98... but anyways.

I tried it and lo and behold, razing the city permanently turned all the land in its ZoC into a swamp that cannot be colonized... forever. (I immediately summoned outposts so it gets under my ZoC to heal the land but it never healed)

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taltamir
seanw3
Join Date 12/2007
+141
Reply #12 September 22, 2012 12:21:58 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

There is a spell to restore the land, but it takes till the endgame to get it.

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taltamir
Kongdej
Join Date 01/2012
+58
Reply #13 September 22, 2012 6:16:02 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting seanw3,
reply 13
There is a spell to restore the land, but it takes till the endgame to get it.

I do not believe in that spell until I see it available in one of my games...

Usually when the game is interesting enough to continue the book required have been made not available to me... (or I did not have an Earth Archmage)

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

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taltamir
taltamir
Join Date 01/2006
+34
Reply #14 September 22, 2012 11:20:11 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

what is that spell and where do I find it?

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taltamir
Kongdej
Join Date 01/2012
+58
Reply #15 September 23, 2012 6:40:06 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting taltamir,
reply 15
what is that spell and where do I find it?

Have a hero being able to cast level 5 earth spells, research the rare endgame research called "The third book of the magi"... and I think you get a spell for 300 mana that does it... I think, never seen it as I said

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

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taltamir
taltamir
Join Date 01/2006
+34
Reply #16 September 24, 2012 6:34:05 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

thank you.

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taltamir
Kongdej
Join Date 01/2012
+58
Reply #17 September 24, 2012 10:53:43 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting taltamir,
reply 17
thank you.

No problem

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