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sweatyboatman
sweatyboatman
Join Date 08/2006
+59

[Suggestion] Apply Penalty to Heroes that Fall in succesful battle

January 21, 2012 6:55:04 PM from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I was surprised to see that if my hero died during a battle I won, he did not incur the penalty of a battle I'd lost.  I get why.  But it feels wrong.  They take the same punishment, they should probably get a flesh wound or something right?

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sweatyboatman
seanw3
Join Date 12/2007
+141
Reply #1 January 21, 2012 7:03:41 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I agree. He or she was defeated and must suffer the consequence. 

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sweatyboatman
Austinvn
Join Date 03/2006
+25
Reply #2 January 21, 2012 7:21:44 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Maybe immobilize them for a few turns - say that they have to stop and rest after being knocked unconscious in battle. It's a little milder than getting permanent disabilities (let's save that for the battles you actually lose, so there's a clear difference) but it'd slow down your offensive if it happens, enough to make you want to protect your champions rather than treating them as expendable because there's no consequence.

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sweatyboatman
sweatyboatman
Join Date 08/2006
+59
Reply #3 January 21, 2012 7:54:02 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting Austinvn,
reply 2
Maybe immobilize them for a few turns

I like it!

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sweatyboatman
Kantok
Join Date 10/2007
+67
Reply #4 January 21, 2012 8:05:45 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Or allow them to stay with their army, but they are withheld from combat for a few turns while they recover. 

 

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sweatyboatman
Heavenfall
Join Date 07/2008
+441
Reply #5 January 21, 2012 8:15:47 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Give them a damn injury, seriously. They went down. There should be a HUGE penalty for that. Hell, they used to fucking DIE in E:wom.

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sweatyboatman
id_est
Join Date 06/2010
0
Reply #6 January 21, 2012 8:26:22 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I change my mind, there must be injury.

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sweatyboatman
RooksBailey
Join Date 02/2008
+10
Reply #7 January 21, 2012 8:33:36 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I still think this idea of sovs and heroes being immortal is a mistake as it takes a lot of the tension out of battles. 

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sweatyboatman
AlLanMandragoran
Join Date 09/2010
+63
Reply #8 January 21, 2012 8:44:31 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Yes, I agree as well a hero who falls (regardless of whether his/her side wins) should absorb a negative trait.

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sweatyboatman
DsRaider
Join Date 11/2008
+70
Reply #9 January 21, 2012 8:50:27 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting RooksBailey,
reply 7
I still think this idea of sovs and heroes being immortal is a mistake as it takes a lot of the tension out of battles

They added it mainly because the AI would be at a huge disadvantage without it, they can't reload if a champion dies.

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sweatyboatman
Mtrixis
Join Date 03/2003
+143
Reply #10 January 21, 2012 8:57:04 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I think it's a far better idea to put in penalties for sloppy play than potential game enders, which just cause the player to reload. Injuries and timeouts on heroes can be considered acceptable losses, losing a hero you've nurtured for 5+ real life hours, not so much.

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sweatyboatman
Zozz
Join Date 05/2004
+11
Reply #11 January 21, 2012 8:57:21 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting Heavenfall,
reply 5
Give them a damn injury, seriously. They went down. There should be a HUGE penalty for that. Hell, they used to fucking DIE in E:wom.

I agree with this.
 

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sweatyboatman
Das123
Join Date 05/2003
+82
Reply #12 January 21, 2012 9:02:44 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting DsRaider,
reply 9

They added it mainly because the AI would be at a huge disadvantage without it, they can't reload if a champion dies.

This. I don't believe I'm the only player who makes a lot of use of the quick-save. The way Champions have been structured in FE keeps the AI in the game because unlike us they can't just reload if a battle goes against them.

I like they way they are structured in FE.

 

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sweatyboatman
alrom
Join Date 08/2010
+2
Reply #13 January 21, 2012 9:13:14 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Heroes should die, or have a chance to die. I get tired of killing the same hero over and over again. Sometimes twice in the same turn, i kill him near a city and the poor guy respawns in that city and i have to kill him again, and again, and again...

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sweatyboatman
TorinReborn
Join Date 10/2010
+5
Reply #14 January 21, 2012 9:18:52 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting Das123,
reply 12

Quoting DsRaider, reply 9
They added it mainly because the AI would be at a huge disadvantage without it, they can't reload if a champion dies.

This. I don't believe I'm the only player who makes a lot of use of the quick-save. The way Champions have been structured in FE keeps the AI in the game because unlike us they can't just reload if a battle goes against them.

I like they way they are structured in FE.

 

Then let player heroes always get a penalty when they die and AI heroes only get penalty when fighting against player units. This way AI is not penalized for bad battles against The Wild but players still feel it is fair when they send suicide squads to weaken a AI squad.

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sweatyboatman
Heavenfall
Join Date 07/2008
+441
Reply #15 January 21, 2012 9:22:58 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Ya, seriously. Are you guys even considering the abuse and exploits these immortal never-get-injuries champions will cause to the game? All you need is champions, doesn't matter if they die, they lose nothing from dying anyway right?

I recommend anyone who thinks the current system is fine, to play a game. In that game, get two champions. Play with the exploit in mind. Go kill monsters to level-up, then kill the enemy factions. And then come back here and tell me it wasn't ridiculously easy.

Don't need units. Don't need magic. Don't need items. Just buy some champions, steamroll every enemy faction and everything they send against you. Who cares if you got killed 10 times over? Your army leader won the battle.

Immortal champions with no injuries = infinite supply of tactical military strength at no cost.

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sweatyboatman
seanw3
Join Date 12/2007
+141
Reply #16 January 21, 2012 9:23:06 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I would go for heroes getting an injury over dying. Maybe a bell curve distribution where dying is the worst thing that happens, but on the other end is only getting a scratch, or even getting tougher if you really freaking luck out. 

Brawler trait- You get beat down in nearly every fight, as a result you can really take a punch. (+1 Constitution)

Dead trait- You died cause your sovereign was tired of reviving you after every single battle. (Dead)

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sweatyboatman
Sarudak
Join Date 12/2006
+23
Reply #17 January 21, 2012 9:46:52 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I think heroes should always gain an injury if they fall in battle. IN ADDITION if they fall again within 5-10 turns they have a 50% of dieing. Something like that would help prevent abuse.

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sweatyboatman
NoPJag
Join Date 03/2006
0
Reply #18 January 21, 2012 10:49:52 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I agree with the injury for falling heroes.

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sweatyboatman
Naidrev
Join Date 06/2010
+5
Reply #19 January 21, 2012 11:27:07 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I disagree that they should be killed or injured if you still win the battle. They start at 1 HP at the end of the battle. That should be enough. Otherwise you risk losing heroes too easily. They are hard to regain, especially in the late game.

 

Heroes being able to teleport away after a losing battle is the real issue in "Hero Immortality". That should be limited to your avatar.

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sweatyboatman
-WhiteElk
Join Date 06/2010
+33
Reply #20 January 22, 2012 12:00:32 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Death should leave it's mark on all who meet it.  Neither victory nor defeat, curry favor with Grim Reaper. Dead is dead, the means matter not. All who die have lost. All who escape win. The mark should be borne by all. 

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sweatyboatman
Rath3130
Join Date 03/2006
+13
Reply #21 January 22, 2012 12:17:42 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting WhiteElk,
reply 20
Death should leave it's mark on all who meet it. Neither victory nor defeat, curry the favor of the grim reaper. Dead is dead, the means matter not. All who die have lost. All who escape win. The mark should be born by all.

 

Agreed. Player champions should suffer some sort of drawback to being defeated in combat, regardless of the outcome. If it is a victory, then have them unsuable for a time and/or wounded.. And while I think that for a player this is one of the more balanced ways to do it, I think that the AI should be given a bit more leniency when it comes to champions falling in combat. As it has been stated in posts above, the AI can not reload after getting eaten by a big dragon.

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sweatyboatman
James009D
Join Date 01/2005
+67
Reply #22 January 22, 2012 12:46:30 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting Austinvn,
reply 2
Maybe immobilize them for a few turns - say that they have to stop and rest after being knocked unconscious in battle. It's a little milder than getting permanent disabilities (let's save that for the battles you actually lose, so there's a clear difference) but it'd slow down your offensive if it happens, enough to make you want to protect your champions rather than treating them as expendable because there's no consequence.

Agreed. However, I'm open to a random chance roll (low) of them being grievously injured as a result of falling in battle too. However, I don't think it should be as heavy as dying outright.

I still think defeated champions should be able to be captured but that'd probably require a LOT of coding.

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sweatyboatman
Alstein
Join Date 07/2004
+55
Reply #23 January 22, 2012 2:07:12 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Something needs to be done, I'm actually protecting my grunt units over my champions. 

 

Maybe if a champion is KOed in victory, they get sent to the nearest town to recover (and are immobilized a few turns) , with a chance of getting an injury.

 

At least then if you're on the defensive, taking out a champion is going to slow them down some.

 

 

 

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sweatyboatman
mqpiffle
Join Date 10/2010
+44
Reply #24 January 22, 2012 2:26:24 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Not only should all heroes who fall in battle suffer negative consequences, the results should scale with the champions level, as in, a lost eye might be -3 accuracy to a level 3 hero who falls in battle, and -10 accuracy to a lvl 10 champion.  Actually it shouldn't be linear like that, it should be more like -12 or more for the level 10.  Something that would seriously make a player stop and consider their actions.

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sweatyboatman
Magog_AoW
Join Date 09/2009
+29
Reply #25 January 22, 2012 4:32:42 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Stardock wanted champs that could take out entire armies, so this wont change.

Looking forward to when we can mod stuff...

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