I disagree. I think Stardock is generally getting more leadway than any other company would get, because they have the respect of players and reviewers alike. They'll still have my respect, even after Elemental, but I'm not going to suger coat this: This is one of the worst games I've ever played from a balance/gameplay design perspective.

Also, delaying the game would have resulted in a much different game, so long as people were able to playtest instead of system test.

Welcome to the intertubes?

 

Sad state of it is, the PA guys have this great theory about the whole deal. And thus is the nature of things. This happens everywhere, and I've seen it a hojillion times. Every game that comes out goes through this, and everyone is always righteously indignant that the game they wanted came out all buggy and unbalanced, unlike all the other games that came out before... until the next game comes out in the same state that they then commit to the same ranting and raving about.

 

It's the internet. When one is anonymous, they tend to be jerks about things. The kinds of discussions had here are not the kinds of discussions that would be had anywhere else. People would be far more tame and pose their thoughts differently. It may well come to the same non-constructive nonsense, but at the very least there would be a modicum of civility.

 

Personally, I'm going to just try to continue being constructive with my criticism (shameless plug: https://forums.elementalgame.com/394334 ) and hope I inspire others to do the same.

I bought Elemental as a pre-order ages ago.  Short of downloading it during the beta and giving it a five minute "Oooh, this has potential" look I really didn't do anything with it until yesterday.  And it's the most fun I've had in ages!!!

I don't understand what the fuss is about.  The game is a load of fun.  There are a few issues, but on something as complex as this there are bound to be some, just like there are when any other complex game gets released.  Some things slip past QA and of course even if they're caught the programmers don't have unlimited time to fix everything so things get prioritized so the big stuff gets fixed.  Is it perfect?  No.  Was it ready to be released?  I think so.

The one thing I've loved about Stardock as a company ever since I bought the first GalCiv is their post-release support.  I know they aren't going to just let things go.  They wanted to put a released game out into the hands of their fans and have budgeted loads of post-release support.  And unlike EA or Paradox, I don't expect to be nickel and dimed into paying for DLC or expansions to get it.

Stardock are a great company, and I am glad to support them with my money.  And in return I hope they're glad in supporting me with countless hours of entertainment.

Hahaha, god, now I'm someone else?  Therapy man....maybe it is that some of you are actually frothing at the mouth?

 

Where are you getting "deal with it" from? I got "Can we be civil and constructive, people?" which, in and of itself, is civil and constructive. Was yours?

I'm quite disappointed with how Stardock has handled aspects of this, while simultaneously rather impressed with others.

 

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Bad

The early release was an unmitigated disaster of crashes.  Yes, some will post that THEY never had a crash so it must not have happened or been very isolated, but the general sentiment has been the opposite.

Even with 1.05 (aka "Day 0") the game is still missing swaths of promised content (like a functioning AI, diplomacy system or fully working magic)

Brad Wardell has made it clear (in a couple of posts) that he was generally happy with the 1.05 version

Worse, when he "apologized" about how it went off, it came off as "Sorry you don't like it" as opposed to "Sorry we made a mistake releasing a beta"

According to a number of posts by beta testers, there were quite a few threads expressing concerns and issues with the August release date...  and they were promptly ignored.  Hell, much of the core gameplay (such as the bolted on magic system) was put in place towards the very end of the beta cycle.

 

Good

Stardock staff have been posting (albeit a bit infrequently) regarding our legitimate game concerns, and in a couple of cases specific fixes that are in the works

In the span of a week we got 3 patches...  while some view this as a negative, I see it as dedication to at least patch the biggest leaks while they work on more substantive ones.

Despite coming off as somewhat insincere apology, Brad pretty much summed up Stardock's track record and mantra...  this will be fixed

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So while I see how badly Stardock bungled this release, despite warnings and a somewhat dicey track record when it comes to 1.0 versions, I do remain faithful that it'll be alright...  but not anytime soon.

And that's the core of most people's outrage as I see it.  If I pay $50 for a game, I expect it to at least have all the core mechanics in place if not at least a semblance of stability.  My system isn't truly hardcore, but if an i7 920, GTX 275 and 6gb RAM can't muscle through the late game, something is dreadfully wrong.  Alt-tab is still a guaranteed crash despite having the most up to date drivers.  But that's only a minor issues honestly.  The fact that most facets of the game are derivative of many TBS' before is not a problem, but they are fundamentally broken (AI, diplomacy, magic, gear stacking) or one-dimensional (unit design, champions, gear, quests, factions).

Deride Master of Magicall you (not the OP, the plural you we don't have in English) want for their respective launch or balancing issues, but they had "oomph" and pizzaz.  Environment, tons of customization options for your wizard, lots of races with strong differentiation, a huge variety of heroes and items and a superb magic system.

Elemental, in it's current form, is no spiritual successor...  it doesn't even deserve to shine MoM's proverbial shoes.

Maybe in 6 months.  Perhaps a year.  I'll be eagerly awaiting that day.  But I shouldn't have had to pay $50 to be in a public beta while it limps towards that goal.

Wow, and I didn't even mention you! Amazing!!

Do you? Sorry...I might be missing something here.


Although! One of your other posts plus a take at RPS really made me realize something: I said what is essentially "fanboyism" affects nothing. I think I was wrong on that one. because it affects a lot. It doesn't at all help the company see needs or deficiencies or things that need to be done. It results in a blinding effect if there is enough of it.

A comment on Kieron's impressions by the user Sigh in particular (REALLY well written article, by the way) makes me think:
"I have some thoughts. I have been following this game on the official forums and I have witnessed the loyal/excited fanbase nearly scream for the game to be released early for months now. The hardcore players would play a section of the beta and then would express how sad they were when the beta closed and how they can’t wait for the full game or even for Stardock to release an early version, etc. (which is what they did). As much as I hate to say it I think the development team was a little stuck in this feedback loop bubble of hardcore players screaming for immediate release. I think the beta participation never reached beyond the core community and so created a hermetic seal around the game. Which is one of the problems of closed/preorder betas in more recent times. I now believe that Stardock should have postponed the release date even if it meant missing the “retail window” they had reserved. I still enjoy the game and anticipate its continued development, but they should have dealt with the pressing angst of the core community in order to fully satisfy the wider more casual community that is just now posting in forums. Kieron wrote a very balanced and perceptive 'Impressions' piece here."

I disagree with the whole "satisfying the casual community," especially since Stardock stated quite well that this will not be a casual game, but the feedback loop and bubble parts ring quite true, as far as I can see.

I mean, Elemental is released and now that everyone has it major ideas and feedback are being put out there from all angles, and many of these ideas are amazing and much of this feedback is quite well done and refreshing.

There may very well be an issue here of not covering all the angles...but I agree with Kieron here: Elemental does not sound like the ambitious title I was imagining as its promise was being described. That promise is all still there, but honestly even the idea of Shadow Magic captivates me far more than the idea of Elemental at this time. The idea of the promise of Elemental captivates me FAR MORE than anything else, though. That promise is still quite intact.

I think blindness or blinding in any extreme needs to go; we have a coin: on one side is "fanboyism" and on the other is "hating."
That coin needs to be tossed entirely for this, it seems to me. If every single angle is not covered, the promise of Elemental will not be realized.
I WANT THAT GAME, DARN IT. I want it a lot.
Shadow Magic is great, but it lacks. It is not as interesting or powerful as the full promise of Elemental. In the meantime, by many reports the game is quite enjoyable and fun. By other reports it is buggy and has many issues and in no way lives up to its potential. I do not think these things are mutually exclusive. Sounds like it is a decent game that is, going back to Kieron, "a bit shoddy."
I want a fantastic game with that oomph and pizazz and imagination and wonderment...I've always been worried about that not being present, but I trust that I can count on Stardock to take all the angles presented here and stand by their game. I have hope that the "true Elemental" will be realized...even as the path toward it is still being traveled now.

 

Um no there not there all pretty much getting deleted, this one should to according to the rules Brad laid down.

 

I would say the vast majority of the Beta community was saying that. I was waiting for a release Canidate to actually start testing the one version prior to release was the only "beta" I thought there was the prior stuff all felt like the actual development stages and alphas. I feel as if we got beta 1 v2 as the release which is about 5 steps too early in the process.

Yes I guess that's what I meant.  I also made the mistake of addressing the poster, when he was just quoting another poster on another message board.

Heh, I remember that thread. There were two people in that thread: those of us greatly concerned with the deadline and asking to have the game delayed - and those who knew nothing could go wrong at all, and in fact also knew that the people being negative had absolutely no idea what they were talking about (because they could clearly read into a person's experience and knowledge through an internet forum).

 

Brad and Co. have lost significant amounts of goodwill on this premature release.  Especially since he was touting something quite more noble fairly recently.  (We, the players, have the right to a finished game, we, Stardock, don't need the money that badly because of our other interests...)

Best regards,
Steven.