RavenX

Join Date 10/2008

+194

Couple of Beta 2 Questions on Numbers.

Final Statistics and Values, or close too them?

Note: Bolding and Italics used for easy to see questions. Not for "yelling".

Knowing already that I plan on making a few Mods for Elemental and wanting to get started on my end as soon as I can (and when I'm feeling well enough) , I have a few questions about some values. I have another question regarding the overall process from here on out which is why this isn't in the "Elemental Modding" section. I have two major questions at this point which I also am guessing a lot of other people are thinking the same question and would like to have some insight as well, so here goes.

Question 1:

The numbers that will be seen in Beta Two, I.E. "Values" like "How much Strength a Ogre has", or "How Many Attacks Does a Spider Get" . Are the numbers that will be seen in Beta 2 (of course knowing they are subject to change) "close" to what you expect them to be at Launch Time?

I only ask this because if I know one way or the other it is much easier for me to start planning Values for some of my monsters and NPC's for my Mod. I'm not asking if they are "set in stone values". Of course any values this early are going to be subject to change and balancing. Perhaps something will be extremely nerfed in a beta patch, or in the opposite way maybe something gets tweaked up. Either way, just knowing if these numbers are "Close" to the actual release values would be a big help. If it's still too early to tell, that's fine too and completely understandable.

Question 2:

How much player tweaking and input do you really have time to implement still Before Release? . Knowing how much "say so" , as it were, that we have left before release would be handy as we would understand to concentrate more on Proper Balancing at this point and time. Also, the "Serious Modders" , now having the assets of Beta Two, could get to work and worry about implementing the Bigger New Ideas either in a later patch/expansion or in our own mods.

Of course we know Elemental will be upgraded and patched and more Player Suggestions and Ideas will be added over time. New content will also be made by the Community and added constantly. We know that Tons and Tons of new stuff will be coming out almost daily by users and that many of you Devs will be making stuff on your own time as users and players yourselves.

Thank You, Stardock Team, for your Excellent work thus far. Stardock has a lot to be proud of and Elemental can only add to the success and well known name that Stardock has earned by making Quality Products and Games.

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After reading these two questions i am also very curious as to both how close those numbers are for your finished product as if i can get hold of them in a later BETA or the release i will already have several ideas on where to start. Mainly because while I am hugely interested in modding for its own sake or for fun i also want the mod i work on with a few people to actually do something for others who play the game. That said the games going to probably take up to much of my time to leave much room for the modding initially.

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Wintersong

Join Date 07/2006

+235

Quoting ,

quoting post

Note: Bolding and Italics used for easy to see questions. Not for "yelling".

I consider absurd to catalog bold and italics as yelling. caps? that's fine. But bolds and italics? No way!

Anyway: http://gmazzocato.altervista.org/colorwheel/wheel.php try #ff0000 for the foreground colour and #000000 for the background one. Think of those not "lucky" enough! (and bad choice of colours anyway, glad it's few text to read)

As there is a good chance of me creating a new system for Elemental (altough the basics are there in a very D&D way), numbers doesn't matter so much. Even if that wasn't the case, would it really matter? I'm a newbie so forgive me for my ignorance but wouldn't be enough to have all your creatures balanced according to your own numbers? Or are you trying to get a mod that is balanced to mix with non-"YourMod" content?

About the second question, I'm totally lost since we started getting new dates. Beta 4 during july, release the 24th of august... The dates can change, obviously, but they seem sooooo close... Not that right now I can do much in the sense of feedback or whatever. I have enough trying to figure out some things for my own mod and even headbutting against a random dungeon generator I have been fiddling with lately (hopefully, Elemental will come with one and save me the trouble of implementing one in the game?).

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Quoting Wintersong,

reply 2

quoting post
Note: Bolding and Italics used for easy to see questions. Not for "yelling". I consider absurd to catalog bold and italics as yelling. caps? that's fine. But bolds and italics? No way!

Anyway: http://gmazzocato.altervista.org/colorwheel/wheel.php try #ff0000 for the foreground colour and #000000 for the background one. Think of those not "lucky" enough! (and bad choice of colours anyway, glad it's few text to read)

As there is a good chance of me creating a new system for Elemental (altough the basics are there in a very D&D way), numbers doesn't matter so much. Even if that wasn't the case, would it really matter? I'm a newbie so forgive me for my ignorance but wouldn't be enough to have all your creatures balanced according to your own numbers? Or are you trying to get a mod that is balanced to mix with non-"YourMod" content?

About the second question, I'm totally lost since we started getting new dates. Beta 4 during July, release the 24th of august... The dates can change, obviously, but they seem sooooo close... Not that right now I can do much in the sense of feedback or whatever. I have enough trying to figure out some things for my own mod and even headbutting against a random dungeon generator I have been fiddling with lately (hopefully, Elemental will come with one and save me the trouble of implementing one in the game?).

True, very true. For the Dragonlance Mod though I'll be tweaking the numbers from the more or less finished Elemental, not remaking every unit from the ground up. Most of them (visually at least) will be made using the in-game editors.

As to the colors. I didn't intend for the "white" part to be white, I just couldn't find the color or number that put it back to default...lol. I should have figured #oooo...duh. I feel kinda silly now.

As for your Random Dungeon Generator, think about this.

Elemental comes with a random map generator, right? Yeap . As Frogboy mentioned in a video, that "map" doesn't have to be a out-side map. It can be a building (dungeon in your case). Make custom tiles then tell the random map generator to use only the tiles you made to make a map. Think of them as "Tile Sets". Instant Random Dungeon Generator (probably with a tad more basic tweaking, but you get the principle) . That's how I plan on making the interior of some of the more notable locations on Krynn for the Dragonlance Mod.

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Wintersong

Join Date 07/2006

+235

Haha Yeah, I had noticed about the random map generator (and the Grid, which I like to activate) but as I didn't know about how random generators work or if Elemental will have a specific one for dungeons (walls, doors...), I decided it was good for me to actually investigate about how they work (and work with some code, and not styles, for a change) and try to do one myself. So if I have to implement one of my own for whatever the reason, to be able to do so. And if later I only have to tweak the in-game one (dungeon specific or map one) and not create one from scratch, I still need the knowledge (Silly corridors trying to start in the corners of rooms! Bad corridors, bad!).

And let's hope for some draconic elements for the "creature creator". If you get Draconians, I get Dragonborn.

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Quoting Wintersong: Haha Yeah, I had noticed about the random map generator (and the Grid, which I like to activate) but as I didn't know about how random generators work or if Elemental will have a specific one for dungeons (walls, doors...), I decided it was good for me to actually investigate about how they work (and work with some code, and not styles, for a change) and try to do one myself. So if I have to implement one of my own for whatever the reason, to be able to do so. And if later I only have to tweak the in-game one (dungeon specific or map one) and not create one from scratch, I still need the knowledge (Silly corridors trying to start in the corners of rooms! Bad corridors, bad!).

And let's hope for some draconic elements for the "creature creator". If you get Draconians, I get Dragonborn.

Hehe. Honestly, if there isn't a "Draconian/Dragonborn" type of creature, maybe someone will make one for us or we can share the same one in both our mods?

I can do great skinning and textures. Models and 3D animations....eh...not so much.

I'd really consider the "Tile Sets" thing though, my friend. It will save you a lot of work. Load up the tile set for "Indoor" stuff and random generate a map, then tweak as needed. Like you say it may put a wall or corridor where one shouldn't be.

Good feedback. Let's hope Frogboy or Boogie give us a shout on this one.

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Wintersong

Join Date 07/2006

+235

I'm thinking of "Dungeons as cities" or something like that. But in a more practical topic, I'm doing my tests in HTML/JavaScript (doesn't depend on IIS or Server2Go, only Windows, Notepad and JavaScript enabled! But once in serious business, Python all the way) and creating the map and dungeon on a table (each cell being a in game tile, actually).

The idea is to generate the map size. Then choose the starting point to dig the first room (the entrance) with a determined size (I use 4x4). Then generate walls around it. Once finished that part, pick a wall and start digging random elements (corridors or other roooms). Once each element is dug and before another one is created, walls are recalculated as I add new elements from wall points.

From a map generation point of view in Elemental. I suppose that the Floor and Corridor tiles in the dungeon would be ground tiles of the normal map (create a new type of ground?) and in which you could place random stuff (including monsters or stairs to other levels), walls would be tile sets that block path (like mountains do now). Not sure about doors yet but I suppose that some kind of prop much like the ones we could use for Floor and Corridor tiles.

Still would need to figure out how to make (randomly) rooms of different sizes and designs (like triangles), for example. Not that I have reached the point of adding rooms (of equally sized sides) to my maps.

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I'd be more interested in knowing how close the ECONOMICS in Beta 2 respresent the final build, and how much say so in balancing buildings/ building types we will have.

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Any kind of Dev word on these? Please... <------ look at that pathetic face. How can you stay silent when looking at that?

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Bump...Bump Bump....

Yeap, I'm gonna be annoying with this until I get some feedback

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Sareln

Join Date 05/2007

+19

Interesting questions Raven, I know I'd be interested in the answer to at least the 2nd one. On a technical note, this reads horribly color-wise on the standard elemental forum. Just letting you know.

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Seriously wintersong, do you a schizophrenic Avatar or something. They are some truly amazing peices of work, but how often do they flip personalities, every 3 days?

p.s. wait.. no cat or feline reference there?

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Quoting Sareln,

reply 10

I'm on the normal Elemental Forums and to me it looks like it's red text on a black background. I like it

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Quoting Sareln,

reply 10

Yeah, reading red text on black background hurts my eyes

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Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001

+2364

The economics in beta 2 is pretty solid.

However, how strong NPCs and monsters are is still very much in flux as there's a lot of place holder values on monsters still (especially after new monsters get added).

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Quoting _PawelS_,

reply 13

Yeah, reading red text on black background hurts my eyes

Mine too. I have to highlight it (so it's blue on white) to read it. Maybe it's just my old eyes...

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Quoting Frogboy,

reply 14

The economics in beta 2 is pretty solid.

However, how strong NPCs and monsters are is still very much in flux as there's a lot of place holder values on monsters still (especially after new monsters get added).

Much appreciated, Boss . So I'll know the Economy won't need tweaked for the Mod. As for starting on creatures I guess I'll hold off till beta 3 when the numbers are more solid with less place holders. Expect this question to come around again then as I'll probably ask at the beginning of every Beta until I can start doing more work on the Mod.

Again, thanks for the Info

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