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Vordrak
Vordrak
Join Date 03/2006
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Question to Developers Regarding Islands and Start Locations ... ?

Can we have an archipelago of small islands?

January 29, 2009 8:52:34 AM from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Hi,

In the recent post by BoogieBac he showed a picture of a city on a single square, with the heading 'Do Not Allow This'. That is fair enough ... a single tile in an ocean is not an advantageous start ...

BUT if that island had been somewhat larger, why not?

One of the very few negatives I found with Master of Magic was that all the AI civilisations were usually on the same continent and almost never used boats.

Can the developers confirm that ...

(i) It will be possible to have the game civilisations spread out across different landmasses, whether that means a few large continents as well as many small islands.

(ii) The AI will use boats / other appropriate means to move between the landmasses.

... ?

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Vordrak
Alstein
Join Date 07/2004
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Reply #1 January 29, 2009 10:03:15 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

AoW2 had the same AI problem as well, so this is something that has to be looked at.

 

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Vordrak
landisaurus
Join Date 06/2008
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Reply #2 January 29, 2009 1:37:20 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

is that 1 tile?  I was wondering.

A little bigger but with nothing on it would be a problem for several reasons.   If it was MUCH bigger, and you didn't need resources then perhaps it would work, but ;

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Vordrak
omega_zeta
Join Date 06/2006
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Reply #3 January 29, 2009 2:09:55 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting ,
quoting post

(i) It will be possible to have the game civilisations spread out across different landmasses, whether that means a few large continents as well as many small islands.

(ii) The AI will use boats / other appropriate means to move between the landmasses.


(i) Per a developers comment the game combat will be focused on the land action. I am taking this to mean that land battles can be tactical if the player so chooses but the naval battles will only be instant resolve. I would think that it is very much possible to have a seafaring nation but it would play much different compared to a land based nation. Enough of stating the obvious.

(ii) I should think so but from my experiance with other games this can be very tough for the AI to do well.

There is nothing quite like watching a massive AI conquest fleet sail out from the fog of war in the only place that you didnt have patrols. 

This isn't impossible, both Civ 4:Beyond the Sword and EU3:INN can do it reasonably well(the former more so than the later) and I believe acheiving a similar effect is well within the scope of Frogboy's talents.

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Vordrak
Vordrak
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #4 January 29, 2009 2:53:31 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting landisaurus,
reply 2
is that 1 tile?  I was wondering.

A little bigger but with nothing on it would be a problem for several reasons.   If it was MUCH bigger, and you didn't need resources then perhaps it would work, but ;

When I said a little bigger I was thinking of a small island. Say the size of the island in the original Master of Magic Demo.

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Vordrak
loialarent
Join Date 06/2008
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Reply #5 January 29, 2009 5:19:49 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

It would be nice if the game just KNEW if you were on an island.  That way if you are on a landmass that is less than desirable it would just automatically give you a very basic transport vessel.  That way you're not confined as bad and dont have to suffer.  And an island does offer some advantages as well (come and get me neutrals!).  Just a thought ^^

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Vordrak
landisaurus
Join Date 06/2008
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Reply #6 January 29, 2009 6:04:22 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

When I said a little bigger I was thinking of a small island. Say the size of the island in the original Master of Magic Demo.

Never played the demo.  I first encountered the game when I got my hands on a CD and instruction booklet of the actual game (that instruction booklet was awesome)

It would be nice if the game just KNEW if you were on an island. That way if you are on a landmass that is less than desirable it would just automatically give you a very basic transport vessel. That way you're not confined as bad and dont have to suffer. And an island does offer some advantages as well (come and get me neutrals!). Just a thought ^^

Well that would be a very different from not being on an island.  That would be interesting if you could choose to do that, though I wouldn't want it to do that by random without me telling it to.

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Vordrak
Tamren
Join Date 03/2008
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Reply #7 January 29, 2009 7:03:19 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Naval combat would be interesting. In MoM only the ships fought each other, the units riding them did not participate unless they could fly. It would be neat to have ship to ship battles between groups of infantry. First would come the missile fight, plus artillery if the ships had any. Then the ships would close and grapple each other and the fighting would shift from deck to deck.

But that sort of mechanic requires a ton of work. And given that the game takes place in a "dead" world the seas would probably not be the safest place to be. You certainly couldn't fish for food unless you spend magic to make the sea liveable.

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Vordrak
landisaurus
Join Date 06/2008
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Reply #8 January 29, 2009 8:30:00 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

But that sort of mechanic requires a ton of work. And given that the game takes place in a "dead" world the seas would probably not be the safest place to be. You certainly couldn't fish for food unless you spend magic to make the sea liveable.

Well I figured that was part of it.  I mean that is the same as forests and everything else.  After it is made livable is when it is usable.

That being said, I would like some really cool things that somehow survived the otherwise dead seas, like great sea monsters that only attack deep-ocean going vessles and such.    At least in an expansion or something like that (since I'm under the impression sea isn't that big of deal based on what is shown so far)

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Vordrak
mittens
Join Date 06/2003
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Reply #9 January 30, 2009 12:34:01 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I'm not sure exactly what I can say other than that we are definitely planning on having very large worlds with numerous continents/islands. That is part of the reason why Scott's screenshot existed at all; having a map generator that's smart enough to determine valid locations based on any number of continents and islands is a bit rough to do so it's requiring a great deal of testing.

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Vordrak
RonLugge
Join Date 05/2004
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Reply #10 January 30, 2009 12:37:21 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting mittens,
reply 9
I'm not sure exactly what I can say other than that we are definitely planning on having very large worlds with numerous continents/islands. That is part of the reason why Scott's screenshot existed at all; having a map generator that's smart enough to determine valid locations based on any number of continents and islands is a bit rough to do so it's requiring a great deal of testing.

 

I can imagine!  Random systems are a PITA to test properly!  Heck, non random systems area pain...  randomization, especially with what amounts to infinite possible outcomes, is gonna be one step short of impossible.

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Vordrak
Luckmann
Join Date 04/2006
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Reply #11 February 11, 2009 11:41:19 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting mittens,
reply 9
I'm not sure exactly what I can say other than that we are definitely planning on having very large worlds with numerous continents/islands. That is part of the reason why Scott's screenshot existed at all; having a map generator that's smart enough to determine valid locations based on any number of continents and islands is a bit rough to do so it's requiring a great deal of testing.
So it was real? I always assumed it was a mock-up 'shoop.

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Vordrak
landisaurus
Join Date 06/2008
+154
Reply #12 February 11, 2009 12:32:36 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

It had 1 space in every direction.  I suspect there was a calculation that confirmed that it wasn't 0 spaces in every direction.    I hope that doesn't mean that it can't start on waters edge though.

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Vordrak
Paradoxnt
Join Date 02/2007
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Reply #13 May 30, 2009 6:52:17 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums

Come on, who doesn't like the idea of having an 'Island Fortress'?  Of course, somebody will simply send 'Island Fortress Cleaners' to take you out.

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