RisingLegend

[quote]TBH, the second beta 2 hits this discussion will end, if not before. There's just nothing else to talk about right now, so people are back to beating the complexity for the sake of complexity drum. What I've really yet to see is an explanation of what the local resource model actually adds in gameplay that the 1Z system can't do (aside from extra micro). We've already got the ability to blockade, we've got resource scarcity if the numbers are tweaked right, we've got rare resources, we

[quote]We do let players connect roads and have caravans to increase their resources.[/quote] So are you saying caravans no longer transport actual food but rather have an abstract "% food increase" amount attached to them? [e digicons]:S[/e]

[quote]I don't quite understand Frogboy at all. This is why I liked Camp 1. Food created locally. If you create a city at a hardcore spot [desert / tundra for example] = the local food production won't be enough to feed the citizens + soldiers. = caravans bring the food to these cities. Siege = no caravan access = starvation. Even if the city is not blockaded, but the caravans are destroyed = starvation.[/quote] Good summary. I think part of the confusion here is exactly

[quote] Really though, I've changed my mind to the opinion that nearly all the depth created by having a complex economic system can be accomplished using the system they've changed to. If not, I will be leading the charge to mod 'Elemental:WOM Complex'.[/quote] Yea I agree, i think i've seen the light. (the light of the darkside? [e digicons];)[/e] lol) this system may work. But should the day come, I will follow you in that charge [e digicons]:thumbsup:[/

[quote]yes but even then if it is connected you need siege to stop that connection and how long does food take to arrive on the network? caravans and villages farms and infranstructure fix this issue.[/quote] I don't know Seth, I don't think caravans transport stuff. Based on what is said, it sounds like when your road was pillaged in Civ IV and you lost connection to your resources.

[quote]The economy doesn't make DF great. Does it add to the immersion; a little bit. Does it add a little bit of accomplishment when you create a functional economy; the first couple times. Is it the most important part of DF; not by far.[/quote] Haha snooted [e digicons]^_^[/e] Ok, I concede. Victory to you guys [e digicons]:P[/e] but dammit, myles, i thought you were on my side [e digicons]:P[/e]

[quote] The funny thing about the "realism" argument is that cities being dependent on local food alone makes for a very unrealistic game because it makes it very hard to starve a city into submission because each city is self-sustaining.[/quote] I thought we were talking about food being "stored locally".. Because, no I don't

[quote]In my opinion, simplicity and depth is more difficult to create than complexity and depth, but the result can be so much better.[/quote] See the only reason I said that was because silicor said that Dwarf fortress was complex. When in fact, what we are seeing in that game is immense depth with a slightly larger learning curve. I think people mistake "complexity" with a game's "learning curve". Because in reality, one afternoon on the DF wiki will make you understand the game te

[quote]I want simplicity, yet depth. As I ramble, this is what I really want. This is what dwarf fortress lacks. It has complexity and depth. If we get to a place where things are simple, yet there is great depth then this game will be great.[/quote] Its extremely hard for simplicity and depth to coexist. What we can agree on is that we want depth in this game. As soon as you focus on making the game "simple enough" you are going to lose depth and you are going

[quote] [I plan to make a total conversion mod for the game, and the economy will work like this in it. Food/Iron/Stone = global resources ; Rare ores etc. = local. [/quote] I plan to make a mod as well but everything (food, iron, wood, swords, spears, magical rings, armor, the whole shebang) is going to lo

[quote who="Jalicos" reply="13" id="2583809"]Jalicos, Novice Fortress Designer cancels Everything: Downloading New Version[/quote] [e digicons]^_^[/e] Im hopin they get fixed soon too so we can get this baby ported! [e digicons]8C[/e] Hmmm, btw whats toady's stance on the ipad? Because I could see touchscreen DF being a huge factor in my possible purchase [e digicons];)[/e]

[quote who="Tiavals" reply="158" id="2583359"]But the problem is in part due to the stockpiling as well. [/quote] Youve got a great point here. My guess is that there will be stock houses, or places to be built that allow you to store a certain amount of that resource. So let's say you have a city. That city has a horse resource. You build a "pasture" and then that city would produce X horse per turn. If you build a "stable" in that city, you can store up to 20 horses. <p

[quote who="Frogboy" reply="150" id="2582763"]And, because it works as you just described, it opens up a LOT more diplomatic options and makes resources a lot more valuable since they now matter to the player as a whole and not just to a particular city in a player's empire. [/quote] I suppose this makes me feel a little better... But... [quote]So basically the whole economy will be based on global resources in the vanilla game. I have some serious issues with this [..and

[quote]However, I feel people are getting too hung up on global vs local. IMO, it will be like civ 4, if your city is connected to your infrastrucutre, than it has acess to all the resources of your empire. If its not, or the city is under siege, than it loses access to global resoucres and only has access to local resouces. I'm just happy that resources produce actual resoucres and not like Civ where 1 iron resouces lets you build as many swordsmen in one turn as you want.[/quote] Bu

[quote]Maybe I'm blind but is there some release notes or something that details the changes? I couldn't find it.[/quote] http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/2010 This outlines everything pretty well [e digicons]|-)[/e] ugh, I wanna play so bad, even though I hear its a glitch fest. @ Raven: I hear what your sayin brother. I wish i

http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/index.html Just waiting for it to get ported to mac! I can't wait! But here's for all you PC users out there. Enjoy! Post some stories!! [e digicons]:grin:[/e]

[quote]Either way, perhaps this could work perfectly, and everyone would be happy: Some resources like food should be global [it will be global], while some other resources, like rare ores should be local.[/quote] Completely agree, you see there has to be a way for us all to be happy. I don't want micromanagement either but I want to feel I can do something if I want to. Like I said before, you want those swords there right now? Teleport them, it's not too hard. I'm not

[quote]Hopefully Frogboy will create a fun game without stupid pointless micromanagment and silly designs. Then you can all mod that gameplay that only a few of you like in to the game so you can suffer alone.[/quote] I feel a poll coming on... [e digicons]#:([/e] Thats extremely ignorant to think only "a few" of us want this game to be engaging and be a living breathing world every game.. [quote]*Click on "Outlying City B", click on resources, click request X a

Which on a similar topic of pioneers, I hope to see a formation of something similar to settlers, which could be so much more effective in a game like this as opposed to civ. I mean look at it, our population is already more personal. It takes population to create units. So if we want to risk sending them into the wild with a caravan (which can hold whatever you think they need, up to a certain weight of course: Food, Wood, Iron, Swords, Spears, etc.) and expect them to build a new ci

[quote]The whole point of strategy oft depends on how you handle what resources you possess and where you maintain those same resources.[/quote] Yea, this is why I was so excited about the "everything is a resource" aspect of camp 1 in the internal debate. Because back then, with per city stockpiling as well, outlying cities wouldn't have to necessarily have the infrastructure to build swords, but swords could be shipped in from cities that do have that infrastructure. The possibiliti

[quote]Edit from a day after initial post: YAY!!! Early test version of DF2010 to be released next week! And although as buggy as the first iteration of a Stardock Beta, it shall be quite fun to play.[/quote] Awesome! you'll have to make a link in a post when it comes out! [e digicons]:thumbsup:[/e] [quote]The top three lines of that with the picture of the dwarf would make a great t-shirt [/quote] and yes, yes it would [e digicons]^_^[/e]

[quote]Hmm, are horses perishable? And can we eat them?[/quote] My dwarves in DF have horse biscuits, yes [e digicons]:P[/e] [quote]HOWEVER, what we are dispensing with is the "Oh, you don't have horses, no problem, it'll just take longer to build your unit." What?[/quote] So thrilled about this!! [e digicons]:grin:[/e] Though I wish per city stockpiling would stay, but I guess you can't ask for everything, huh? [e digicons]^_^'[/e] ... Modd

[quote]What we are discussing here are resources that go into a pool. You don't control your own horses? Then you'll need to buy some. The key difference being that there isn't that much abstraction here. If you need A horse, you will use up A horse. Building stables on a herd of wild horses will produce N horses for your kingdom per turn.[/quote] having to buy horses sounds like a good thing to incorporate, I like that idea. So resources are like population? To build a

[quote]I don't know that what system we gonna end up having in the game, but isn't it realistic like that? I mean....how could you create a horse archer, if you don't have horses? However...this can be "negated" by adding new building types...example: stable/horse breeder. Either way, if we can create units like horse archers, "beast" riders etc. out of nowhere...I will be pissed.[/quote] Completely agree. 100%. [quote]Realism isn't a prime consideration in a turn based fantas

I love the pioneers idea, but I can't help but feel the economy is getting increasingly unimportant and devalued. I'm concerned with what is going to be the end result. I had such high hopes for the economy back in the Internal Debates Made External. Camp 1 amazed me unbelievably. I've been playing Dwarf Fortress recently and it's sad to think that a game like that (one without financial backing) has a more advanced economy than Elemental is going to have. I haven't given up hope, and I hope