Wish List for Legendary Heroes » Forum Post by Greyclouds40

Summoning spells that are not limited to one unit per caster. This was a huge omission in FE, in my opinion. Instead of being able to build an army of summons (and being able to actually spend your mana income on useful things!), you were left with weak, solitary units that became useless in the late game. Allowing multiple summons (limited by your mana income and castable only once per turn) would have been an excellent mechanic.

Meaby being able to summon "Groups" of some monsters, like my trained units appear in groups of 3, it would be cool to be able to summon a larger group of units depending on how much mana I threw at my spell.

I like all your suggestions, although if you just removed the limit of the summons right now, it would dominate early game, and midgame... I think

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

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maybe heavier armor should decrease initiative more. lighter troops could then move around better to get that good surround

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Heavier armor needs to be researched, it is heavier (which means you can't have as much stuff equipped due to weight limits, and there's the initiative penalty), and it costs more. If it's only on par or slightly better than lower-tier armor, why would you waste time researching it? Researching is supposed to be an upgrade. Heavier armor already has sufficient drawbacks.

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Alstein

Join Date 07/2004

+55

Heavy armor has a counter with magic staves, spears and dodging. It's not a problem, outside of the AI not knowing how to counter it that well yet.

I'd like to see more summons, and maybe some standardization of summons. Why is it air elementals can't be summoned, but other elementals can? AOW had four levels of summons, I think LH could at least have 3, one for levels 3/4/5 (3 being a weak summon, 4 an elemental, and 5 a nastier summon)

It won't happen, but at a minimum, I'd like to see Capitar/Umber fleshed out with new sovereign as official factions.

I agree with more random events, and more faction-specific buildings.

I also want to see more standardization in magical weapons- why can I make a fire axe but not an ice axe?

I'd also like to see unique bonus techs through goodie huts- for example, maybe a goodie hut has a blacksmithing lesson that allows your blacksmith to make guiding weapons, or a cookbook that makes wargs tasty (-.25 wargs +10 food per grain, -1% unrest per grain) per upgraded resource.

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Yes, overall FE has too much 'mundane' feel... 95% of the units are human soldiers that strike with classic weapons e.g Same for buildings etc. Where is the Master of Magic or Fall from Heaven spirit here?

Also, I don't want to sound offensive because I appreciate dearly the game and the work of the team, but there are issues that I would dare call 'failed basics', and I hope that LH will adresses them (in parenthis older games having the feature):

- can't stack or pass through allied units or buildings (FFH)

- can't debuff/dispell. Cure poison anyone? (MOM, AOW, FFH)

- Can't give back a city or outpost (AOW, FFH)

- can't raze roads ever (AOW, FFH)

- spill-over production/research (less micromanagement) (modmod of FFH, MOM spells)

I believe I'm missing a few basics, but the idea is these features should be in asap to have FE/LH up to 'standards'...

+1

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I'd like to see a return of the Lineage system. I really liked the idea of building an empire/kingdom across many generations - I felt it really added a uniquely personalized bend to the game.

-tid242

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I second the points raised by Nibelung44. Please fix these.

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abob101

Join Date 11/2010

+49

- can't debuff/dispell. Cure poison anyone? (MOM, AOW, FFH)

Several good suggestions from Nibelung44 but this one in particular would be great to have. Wouldn't have thought it would be too hard to implement and would give an extra something to tactical (and just makes sense to have in any case).

PS - if anyone can tell me why that post goes yellow and I can't get rid of it would love to know.

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Quoting Kongdej,

reply 1

Meaby being able to summon "Groups" of some monsters, like my trained units appear in groups of 3, it would be cool to be able to summon a larger group of units depending on how much mana I threw at my spell.

I like all your suggestions, although if you just removed the limit of the summons right now, it would dominate early game, and midgame... I think

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

This is true, though I think that the mana deficit would need to be rebalanced for lower tier summonings. If you have a constant upkeep draining your mana pool, then you will not be able to cast other spells.

I think that having mana upkeep play a more significant role would be a better solution than the current "mana pool dump" spells that inhabit the upper tiers of each spell circle.

Another thing while we are on the topic of summoning spells: I think that the leveling stat bonuses for summons needs to be revisited further. I know that in recent updates they improved bonuses for non-human units, but there needs to be a further increase for lower tier summons. It would make casting them as "fodder" units more beneficial in the late game and it would make the champion "summoner" skill useful.

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Quoting Darxim,

reply 3

Heavier armor needs to be researched, it is heavier (which means you can't have as much stuff equipped due to weight limits, and there's the initiative penalty), and it costs more. If it's only on par or slightly better than lower-tier armor, why would you waste time researching it? Researching is supposed to be an upgrade. Heavier armor already has sufficient drawbacks.

This is true, and it is why I would suggest "material qualities" of armor rather than "types" of armor be researched at each stepping stone.

For instance, "hide leather, iron link chain and scrap-work plate" armors at the first tier, then "leather armor, steel chain and plate armor" at the next tier and so on.

Then, revamp the encumbrance system so that lighter armors get more mobility and other bonuses whereas heavier armors get more defense and other bonuses. I have seen mods embrace a system like this in the past and I think that this is the way to go rather than the current progression system. This way, you can design quick strike units at later tiers that don't crumple in the first rounds of combat.

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Quoting Nibelung44,

reply 6

Yes, overall FE has too much 'mundane' feel... 95% of the units are human soldiers that strike with classic weapons e.g Same for buildings etc. Where is the Master of Magic or Fall from Heaven spirit here?

Also, I don't want to sound offensive because I appreciate dearly the game and the work of the team, but there are issues that I would dare call 'failed basics', and I hope that LH will adresses them (in parenthis older games having the feature):

- can't stack or pass through allied units or buildings (FFH)

- can't debuff/dispell. Cure poison anyone? (MOM, AOW, FFH)

- Can't give back a city or outpost (AOW, FFH)

- can't raze roads ever (AOW, FFH)

- spill-over production/research (less micromanagement) (modmod of FFH, MOM spells)

I believe I'm missing a few basics, but the idea is these features should be in asap to have FE/LH up to 'standards'...

100% agree. The fact that there are no "healer" unit types is another big deficit in my opinion. There should be "kits" that you can provide to certain unit types that provide penalties but allow the unit to cast spells as mana-free abilities. Also, make these kits faction-specific or exclusive only to a range of certain factions.

Altair healers, anyone? How about Magnar entanglers?

If there is a one-kit per unit limit, and the penalties prohibit "spamming" of the unit (ie. extra damage in melee combat) then the fast pace of combat would not be diminished but tactical combat would be significantly improved.

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Alstein

Join Date 07/2004

+55

one idea for the healing: bandages a unit can use to heal 2hp per unit, range 1, one use per battle. Requires Cooperation to create. Useless for champions, but great for large units.

I would like to see better armor as you described it. Have the armor techs improve the quality of light/heavy armor.

Oh: another idea for a tech gained from a lair: perhaps defeating a drake could give you "drake hide armor", which would be leather armor weight, but higher defense. Dragon armor could come from defeating a dragon. These armors would be expensive though. Perhaps this should be given through a quest in your ZOC to defeat a drake/dragon.

Cure Poison would be a good water spell, or a good fire spell if it also does damage to the person having the poison cured.

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I am wondering if more terraforming spells could be added. I know that the domain of your empire causes a change in the tileset, but what if you could change the tileset with spells and cause different effects?

For instance, there could be a water spell that engulfs the land in frost and ice and causes penalties for income generation.

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Quoting ,

quoting post

Given the announcements for the next expansion (and my excitement over Derek's reveal of new features), I thought it might be interesting to see which features the community would like to see as well.

Let me start with a few:

Summoning spells that are not limited to one unit per caster. This was a huge omission in FE, in my opinion. Instead of being able to build an army of summons (and being able to actually spend your mana income on useful things!), you were left with weak, solitary units that became useless in the late game. Allowing multiple summons (limited by your mana income and castable only once per turn) would have been an excellent mechanic.

{No I disagree this was an optimum choice the designers made to keep the humaan player from overpowering the AI too much as the AI has never been good at summoning or combating them in any other game I've played. I recall in MOM that the AI was easily swarmed and beaten just summoning Ghouls and Firedogs in the early game.]

Uses for lower-tier armor apart from a progression system. FE had a progressive armor system where outfitting all of your troops with the most encumbering armor was always the best choice. Sure, there were some downsides to the more encumbering armor, but the problem is that the game rewards you for maintaining a few higher quality units. Swarm mechanics will do more to help combat this, but a full army of 8 or 9 champions will likely still dominate the game. My thoughts: Leather armor and chain mail should have some additional benefits that plate armor does not have.

[Why place something unplausible or unrealistic into the game. Hvy Plate has always been the best suit of armor in defense unless it was some magical component like mithril chain, if that's what you're saying I'm fine with that. But, it has to be magical and very "rare" hard to find and you might not see it in 10 games.]

More faction specific buildings and tech. Much of the problem with faction flavor in FE is that a high proportion of buildings (~90%), tech (~100%) and unit upgrades (~90%) are shared by all factions. If Legendary Heroes adds any new building, unit or skill-based content, I would humbly suggest that the majority of it should be exclusive to one or two factions at a time. I would also like to ask for more faction-specific technologies. These small additions would give the game significantly more replay-value.

[I'm sure this is to keep "balance" on as close of a level playing field as possible, everyone knows when you start giving faction bonuses to just about anything it throws the whole game out of whack and others start complaining about this is imbalanced and that is imbalanced and wah whah wah and boo hoooty hoo hoo I want the faction "I" play to be powerful. Already I find just the traits and talents we can choose and mix together to be quite overpowering vs the AI, so don't need to add more to the fire.]

More random events. I'm surprised that there aren't more of these! The mid-game often slows down and could use a mechanic in order to bust up the slight monotony of empire-building. Having a few "crises" (ie. demons swarm the landscape) now and again would force players to maintain an army and venture out of their cities. This is a major feature present in Fall From Heaven II that I think needs to be added to this game.

[Turn up random events to maximum as I don't see a problem with this in the games I play and also play on smaller maps]

Please feel free to submit your suggestions or critique mine!

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I would like to see Minor Races added. These would be races that you could enslave, or vassals, allies or just someone to crush to take their stuff. They could also provide unique unit types, like lizardmen, orcs, ogres, etc. and also unique mounts like lizards, drakes, spiders and so on. Other races could provide a unique armor set, weapon set, trade options, spells and so on.

This might be a bit much to add to the expansion and might require a DLC or a new expansion, but it's something I would love to see and that I think would bring a lot of variety to the game

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voting for the OP idea!

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Quoting willie sanderson,

reply 15

{No I disagree this was an optimum choice the designers made to keep the humaan player from overpowering the AI too much as the AI has never been good at summoning or combating them in any other game I've played. I recall in MOM that the AI was easily swarmed and beaten just summoning Ghouls and Firedogs in the early game.]

Perhaps you have never played the game, but AoW:SM had AI routines that were good at balancing summoning and "gold-based" armies. So, would it be better stated that you are arguing against the current AI routines than my proposed mechanic?

[Why place something unplausible or unrealistic into the game. Hvy Plate has always been the best suit of armor in defense unless it was some magical component like mithril chain, if that's what you're saying I'm fine with that. But, it has to be magical and very "rare" hard to find and you might not see it in 10 games.]

With all due respect, magic spells are not plausible or realistic either; that is the reason why this is a game and not a simulator. And no, I wasn't arguing for better defense on Leather than plate (or even equivalent defense stats!) I was arguing for a different set of bonuses that play to mobility and evasion. I think THAT is somewhat sensible. Think more of a modification of the current encumbrance system that gives higher bonuses to the lower encumbrance tiers.

[I'm sure this is to keep "balance" on as close of a level playing field as possible, everyone knows when you start giving faction bonuses to just about anything it throws the whole game out of whack and others start complaining about this is imbalanced and that is imbalanced and wah whah wah and boo hoooty hoo hoo I want the faction "I" play to be powerful. Already I find just the traits and talents we can choose and mix together to be quite overpowering vs the AI, so don't need to add more to the fire.]

This is true, but I see a trade-off between balance and flavor here. If you make everything too homogeneous you do get excellent intra-faction balance, but you lose out on the fun-factor. Too much flavor and you run into the issues that you cite. I think that, currently, the system is too homogeneous and the factions have too much overlap in tech, buildings and units. Again, the AI would need to be updated for this, but it would be a big "fun-factor" boost, IMO.

[Turn up random events to maximum as I don't see a problem with this in the games I play and also play on smaller maps]

I play at maximum and I do not get a high frequency of random events; but even so, more events and more higher quality events would always be a bonus, no?

What do you think that the game needs most at this point?

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Quoting BabbyLuring,

reply 16

I would like to see Minor Races added. These would be races that you could enslave, or vassals, allies or just someone to crush to take their stuff. They could also provide unique unit types, like lizardmen, orcs, ogres, etc. and also unique mounts like lizards, drakes, spiders and so on. Other races could provide a unique armor set, weapon set, trade options, spells and so on.

This might be a bit much to add to the expansion and might require a DLC or a new expansion, but it's something I would love to see and that I think would bring a lot of variety to the game

I like this idea, but perhaps it could be an extension of the existing "ogre," "wildman," and "knights of asok" techs and resources? Instead of just being resource buildings that produce the units, you could upgrade them (like outposts) or improve them. Perhaps even negotiate with them like the city-states in Civ 5 (though that last part might be a bit too much for the devs!).

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Alstein

Join Date 07/2004

+55

Quoting Greyclouds40,

reply 19

Quoting BabbyLuring, reply 16I would like to see Minor Races added. These would be races that you could enslave, or vassals, allies or just someone to crush to take their stuff. They could also provide unique unit types, like lizardmen, orcs, ogres, etc. and also unique mounts like lizards, drakes, spiders and so on. Other races could provide a unique armor set, weapon set, trade options, spells and so on.

This might be a bit much to add to the expansion and might require a DLC or a new expansion, but it's something I would love to see and that I think would bring a lot of variety to the game

I like this idea, but perhaps it could be an extension of the existing "ogre," "wildman," and "knights of asok" techs and resources? Instead of just being resource buildings that produce the units, you could upgrade them (like outposts) or improve them. Perhaps even negotiate with them like the city-states in Civ 5 (though that last part might be a bit too much for the devs!).

I'd love to see ogres/wildmen/trolls unlock a variety of improvements, with options. You could choose between troll elixirs, troll hide armors, or troll camps (might depend on improvements- I wouldn't mind seeing improvements require improvements). As for Knights of Asok, by the time you get them, they suck. I'd love to see knights of Asok would as a free promotion for units built in the city, or give your kingdom access to a better baseline troop. That would be more useful.

Another option would be Knights of Asok allow kingdoms to buy promotions for their units/heroes. Need Apprentice Swordsmen for your hero and haven't gotten it yet, that's 300 gold. Want your spear maidens to have pointier sticks? (100 gold per unit)

Since Ogre heroes are other unusual things are aded, I'd like to see minor races added, but not when there's a lack of major races.

One of the things I am super-frustrated about with this series of games so far, as that I just feel the potential for fun/ideas hssn't been scratched. I'm not saying FE is rushed, or feature incomplete, but it could have many, many more features/random quirks pop up. It feels short of FFH2 in this regard.

I've never held FE/Elemental up as a spiritual sucessor to MOM- I know MOM is something that wouldn't fly today. What I"ve wanted out of the series is for it to have the equivalent of all the fun stuff AOW/FFH2 had, with Stardock-quality AI/under the hood. I've pretty much received the latter, but not enough of the former so far, which is what I think is why I consider FE in its current state competent and good but not great. (That said, much of my expectations of Stardock came from Twilight- which was when I think GCII moved from good to great IMO)

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Just wait it's coming when they produce Elemental: War of Magic : Fallen Enchantress's : Child of Greed III

You really didn't think they were going to give you all the BEST in these free versions did you? heh

Nope, I suspect just like GalCiv II that the best game will be in the last game @ $59.95

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Quoting willie sanderson,

reply 21

Just wait it's coming when they produce Elemental: War of Magic : Fallen Enchantress's : Child of Greed III

You really didn't think they were going to give you all the BEST in these free versions did you? heh

Nope, I suspect just like GalCiv II that the best game will be in the last game @ $59.95

Would not mind as long as they make it! =D

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My wishlist:

More choices when conquer a setlement

a) sack settlement: take a part of the money and resources of the settlement(-% unrest,-%production)

b ) enslave population: tranfer them in one of your settlements (+1 to unrest,+1 to production)

c)exterminate-raze settlement.

For champions.

I would like, when a faction is defeated, to capture it's sovereign and champions.

Then i can use them or execute them and loot their equipment.

And a wish i made here

https://forums.elementalgame.com/439794/page/7/#3321149

for more different weapon designs.

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Every great single player TBS game has a Hall of Fame. LH should have one too!

It just give us something to keep shooting for

The Icon for single player TBS games: Master of Orion II

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Damn you Lord Micheal, now I want to play MoO2 again

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

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Some people might not like this or think it is necessary, but I really dig the Steam achievements, and also Steam Workshop.

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