25Atan

Join Date 11/2012

Scroll Library

I know that I might get a lot of hate for this comment. And i can certainly understand that getting your conclaves to level 4 is sometimes a long way to go, but you can usually count on the AI to get one for you. In any case I feel like the Blizzard Scrolls are WAY to cheap for what they are.

Spending 90 gold for an instant massive AoE burst is broken. I find myself buying stacks of them whenever I get access to a scroll library. The main problem is that the spell is instant and/or that the price is so cheap. I feel like increasing its price to at least 150 would be better.

Using one per battle with a stack of 5-7 of them, I can crush any faction in a dozen of turns without taking much damage in return, if any.

I know the access to these scrolls are given in the mid-late game, but that is especially the moment when you have gathered enough water altars and evoker/path of the mage/magical items on your mages to buff its damage to a stupid amount.

In a similar manner, paying 90 for an air elemental which will only last for the duration of one battle in the latter stages of the game (where Juggernauts, Companies, Dragons and such are common place) feels a bit underwhelming. That's like paying 90 gildar for a Titan's Breath...

Also why not making it possible to buy Fire, Water or Earth elemental Scrolls?

Thank you.

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Mystikmind

Join Date 06/2004

+20

I know, make it possible to get reward scrolls from the market when you buy stuff that let you get magical explosive refined crude oil at discount prices!

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This is one of the reasons i would like to see a limit in inventory space. However .... shrug.

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the problem with magic scrolls is that nobody will use or look at them if they're too much of an investment.

i'd vote on weakening the spell, rather than increasing the gold cost, imo

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Alstein

Join Date 07/2004

+55

Elementals should be standardized to lvl 4 summons and all elemental spheres should get one.

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Quoting NanakoAC,

reply 3

the problem with magic scrolls is that nobody will use or look at them if they're too much of an investment.

While I would agree that making expensive a scroll that is hardly useful would be completly uninteresting, I would still buy 10 Damn Blizzard Scrolls if they were 200 gildar a piece for 2000 gildar, because the effectiveness of the spell in itself is so high. There is no specific reason to weaken the spell as you need your caster to gain % bonus damage and a couple of water shards to really improve the effectiveness of the spell.

Still 90 gildar for this nuke (which is instant cast contrary to the archmage casting requiring 2 turns of incantation) is way too damn cheap! make it 150 at least please!

Quoting Alstein,

reply 5

Elementals should be standardized to lvl 4 summons and all elemental spheres should get one.

I completly disagree on that point which seemed off topic. Elementals are already weak, I don't see any reason to nerf them into having a level cap at level 4. This will make their purchasable scrolsl even more irrelevant.

The idea of a Scroll Library while terrific is widely underused in the game atm in my honest opinion. The standardization of them is a bad idea. I would like to see scrolls that reflects your mastery in the specific domains of magic that you have mastered:

Level 3 fire mages gain access to fire ball scrolls
Level 3 water mage gain access to pandemonium scrolls
Level 2 death mage gain access to shadowbolt scrolls
Level 4 earth mage gain access to Earth elemental scrolls

And so on... This scrolls would only be purchasable according to the magic mastery of your heroes/sovereign and will be available for purchase only if you have a conclave becoming a library scroll indeed.

Why giving access to 2 scrolls for a standardized price which don't reflect your mastery in magic?

I decided to put forward the topic again because while I thought at first people will be angry to someone asking for an increase in price for scrolls, in fact people seems to not feel concerned by the topic. I might have been to happy seeing the option library scrolls bringing back some Lords of Magic and HoMM III visions of a magic library, but that is such a god damn good idea, so let's use it!

I won't bump or put forward this again if people seems uninterested in the topic. However I would be glad to know people's opinion about this.

Thank you!

[edit]: grammar & to add that the effectivness of the spell contain in the scroll should be reflected in its price. A shadowbolt scroll shouldn't be the same price as a fireball, which shouldn't be as expensive as a blizzard scroll, if these ideas get to be implemented somehow.

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I don't use these scrolls. I sell all I find, because if I find, let's say, a fireball scroll, and I keep it for a better moment, finally I never use, as I don't need to. I prefer taking the money now and then rushing buildings and units... I'm always run out of money, so I would never pay 90 G for a blizzard scroll (900 for 10 scrolls? no way).

I don't even know where in the Tree is the tech required. But in my mid/late games, money is more important resource than mana. I need to use alchemy sometimes, if I'm lucky to find it...

Maybe, if the AI used these scrolls, more players would realize in how powerfull they can be, and then there would be more discussion...

I'll try them in my next game to check

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Spell buffed up by number of shards should have a limit, like at most 5 shards boost effect, or sometime it gets reeeeaaally silly. If you want to go subtle, have the max number of shards a variable per spell, that would be better. But this is in the hands of the dev team.

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BlackSmokeDMax

Join Date 03/2006

+60

Are the scrolls buffed by shards as well? If true, I wouldn't mind seeing that nerfed to just a set damage amount for the scroll version. Perhaps higher than base regular spell, but still a set limit. I really think that an actual spell cast by a magic using champion should be more powerful than a scroll read by perhaps, a non magic using at all champion.

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athelasloraiel

Join Date 12/2011

+10

hoping that new expansion/DLC brings more summoning things to get by..

as well as better summoning mechanics...

(even combining shards o create new elementals and creatures?)

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Quoting Leo in WI,

reply 9

Are the scrolls buffed by shards as well?

Yes. Base damage is 19+4 per water shard x by your common mage modifiers (equipment, path of the mage and such). For this reason limiting the number of shards taking effect is not enough as the base damage will be high anyway. Also, while I have the most utter respect for modders, I don't have any skills in modding myself, so I wouldn't know how to do this.

Mid game i'm using scrolls for 70-110 damage, instant cast, hitting at least 6 units. Late game easily hitting for 150+ damage AoE. Wiping towns in basically one turn apart from 2 units for 90 gold. No one runs frost resist so it's basically never reduced and when it is resisted, hits for a mere 45+ mid, 75+ damage late game.

Quoting SOLOSOL,

reply 7

I don't even know where in the Tree is the tech required. But in my mid/late games, money is more important resource than mana. I need to use alchemy sometimes, if I'm lucky to find it...

You get access to the Scroll Scribe (or Scroll Library as I mistakenly did) by reaching level 3 in one of your conclave. At which point you are allowed to buy blizzard and air elemental scrolls for 90 a piece.

Having a wider but consistent choice would be great, although price needs to be balanced according to the power fo the spell.

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Level 5 conclave options suck so maybe this makes up for it?

I never use the spell scrolls aside from the occasional quest reward, they're available to all who are willing to use them so they're not 'imbalanced'. Usually they cost more gold then they make me, but when you need the occasional power-shift then they come in handy.

Making them weaker would do for me, it's odd that an unskilled hero can read a scroll and cast it as powerful as the mage who wrote it could cast...

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Quoting 25Atan,

reply 11

Mid game i'm using scrolls for 70-110 damage, instant cast, hitting at least 6 units. Late game easily hitting for 150+ damage AoE. Wiping towns in basically one turn apart from 2 units for 90 gold. No one runs frost resist so it's basically never reduced and when it is resisted, hits for a mere 45+ mid, 75+ damage late game.

Note that there are other ways of achieving comparable effects. I ended my last game clearing cities with flame wave for a fraction of the cost of your scrolls.

In all cases, though, you have not only the per-battle costs but significant supporting investments.

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I think that all scrolls should have a fixed effect and not benefit from any shards or the caster 's skill.

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Quoting dihir,

reply 13

Quoting 25Atan, reply 11
Mid game i'm using scrolls for 70-110 damage, instant cast, hitting at least 6 units. Late game easily hitting for 150+ damage AoE. Wiping towns in basically one turn apart from 2 units for 90 gold. No one runs frost resist so it's basically never reduced and when it is resisted, hits for a mere 45+ mid, 75+ damage late game.

Note that there are other ways of achieving comparable effects. I ended my last game clearing cities with flame wave for a fraction of the cost of your scrolls.

In all cases, though, you have not only the per-battle costs but significant supporting investments.

Let's take a quick exemple:

Flame Wave turn 130: cast time one turn, hits all targets on battlefield for 20-25 fire damage (admitting you are very lucky with fire shards), cost 40 mana, consolidated damage: 130-ish, probably reduced by fire resisting units.

Blizzard Scroll turn 130: no cast time, hits only up to 6-8 clumped targets for 80+ damage (admitting you are not very lucky with water shards), no mana cost but costs 90 gold, consolidated damage: 630-ish, probably not reduced by frost resisting units since there are rare to say the least.

I could make an estimate for turn 230 but for flame wave to catch up in damage with blizzard you were probably over turn 400 and even then...

Usually gold is not a problem by turn 150+, so I slap some scrolls to quickly deal with deadly+ groups.

I'm not saying it's unbalanced, i'm saying it's stupidly overpowered. 90 gold is basically nothing.

Air elemental Scroll costs 130 actually after doublechecking it. People talk about the adventurer's guild (with reason) but this is worst imho.

I also don't see many opinions on what scrolls could be added to make the scroll scribe feels more relevant. More scrolls? Scrolls of spells you master only? Limited number of scrolls? adjustment in price? Cast time on higher level scrolls? Cost in crystal?

As it is now, the scroll scribe is the best option for a level 3 conclave (boost research and grant access to blizzard scrolls) so buffing it or giving it more options might not be the wisest of choices, yet I reckon there is great potential for it to become a mage's place.

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