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harmonius_
harmonius_
Join Date 08/2012
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[0.981] Slaves

October 1, 2012 7:36:14 AM from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Slaves cost 15 production. So you can build 1 slave per season if your city has 4 materials. You can build first slave in season 2. Cheap slaves are very useful. They can be scouts, cannon fodders and victims of sacrifice. Moreover slaves don't require wages. Imho overpowered.

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harmonius_
joasoze
Join Date 02/2006
+39
Reply #1 October 1, 2012 7:41:45 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

All races have their "overpowered" speciality. The Resoln death deamons, the Altar can buy quests and hyper level heroes, Tarth not being attacked by monsters +++

So, when all are overpowered, then none are

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harmonius_
harmonius_
Join Date 08/2012
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Reply #2 October 1, 2012 7:44:46 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Maybe you are right.

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harmonius_
Poko8
Join Date 08/2008
+20
Reply #3 October 1, 2012 8:19:27 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Joasoze  - I agree.  It breaks down though when custom factions can have more than one of those overpowered abilities.  In my opinion, there should be a list of "OP" traits that you can select one of, and then a list of play-style traits that you can select more than one of.

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harmonius_
joasoze
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #4 October 1, 2012 9:01:59 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I dont play custom sovs, and if I did I would not make a super race. That is cause I like to fight against the odds and usually fail. Victory is then all the more sweet.

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harmonius_
Lord Xia
Join Date 03/2006
+148
Reply #5 October 1, 2012 9:13:39 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

The problem is that some powerful abilities are paired with the race itself, while others are not.  Trogs have juggernauts, Ironeers have Golems, Men have Henchmen, and Quendar have Slaves, always.  I could make a Quendar nation that has all the monster summoning of Rsolin and the master scouts of Tarth, with the Slaves I get from being Quendar.  

 

The problem is the weakest races, like the Wraiths and Paridens(can't remember what they are called, A-something) are grossly weaker and at a huge disadvantage to something like a Trog who gets a strength bonus to wear heavier armor and have a higher attack along with having Juggernauts before they even choose nation traits.

 

I'm sure I didn't spell any of that right, hope you got the idea.

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harmonius_
joasoze
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #6 October 1, 2012 9:37:39 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Just to derail this totally: Has anyone actually found a use for henchmen?

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harmonius_
Lord Xia
Join Date 03/2006
+148
Reply #7 October 1, 2012 9:46:43 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting joasoze,
reply 7
Just to derail this totally: Has anyone actually found a use for henchmen?

 

I find them pretty useful as aditional heroes.  They can also cast things like heal spells and haste, along wiht using good hero gear.  I find them pretty useful.  Not real powerful, but as they level they can be pretty solid.  Although Sions on the other hand seem totally worthless, they level as heroes, but don't gain magic or use gear, so they are almost complety impossible to keep alive to level, and without gear they will always suck.  

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harmonius_
Poko8
Join Date 08/2008
+20
Reply #8 October 1, 2012 10:05:30 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting joasoze,
reply 7
Just to derail this totally: Has anyone actually found a use for henchmen?

 

Henchmen are amazing!  I use my sovereign and quest-map powerlevel two tiers:

The first set of 4 or 5 I take to level 7 or 8 (takes 1-3 turns depending on the quests you get) and go path of the governor.  They'll usually have 3 talents among Loremaster and Merchant, so each one will be worth 1-2 research and 2-5 gildar, plus 2 growth and 15% unrest.  

The second set I'll train as border patrol pairs - one swordsman and one fire mage (buy the fire books from Pariden to give them the real talent, not the fake one).  I'll get them to level 10-12 each, and put one pair with each defensive army I have.  Usually takes 4-5 turns of quest map powerleveling.  With the quest map leveling, the swordsmen will have either a Druss Blade or the Maul one and the fire mages will be archmages and able to throw out huge damage fireballs.  Even without support troops they'll crush pretty much anything.

The greatest part is that they don't cause xp to be split.  I have have a party of my sovereign and 5 of them and it's like I have 6 champions in my army.  

See my post 

https://forums.elementalgame.com/430502

for an amazing henchman.  He eventually got to 90-something attack pre-buffs, and over 600 with the buffs.  2-shot an elemental lord and would 1-shot dragons.  

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harmonius_
Kongdej
Join Date 01/2012
+58
Reply #9 October 1, 2012 11:33:08 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting Lord Xia,
reply 6
The problem is that some powerful abilities are paired with the race itself, while others are not.  Trogs have juggernauts, Ironeers have Golems, Men have Henchmen, and Quendar have Slaves, always.  I could make a Quendar nation that has all the monster summoning of Rsolin and the master scouts of Tarth, with the Slaves I get from being Quendar.  

 

The problem is the weakest races, like the Wraiths and Paridens(can't remember what they are called, A-something) are grossly weaker and at a huge disadvantage to something like a Trog who gets a strength bonus to wear heavier armor and have a higher attack along with having Juggernauts before they even choose nation traits.

 

I'm sure I didn't spell any of that right, hope you got the idea.

I pretty much agree, that the picks and races are way out of balance, I would hope for a fix but any talk of this have had little backup or changes seen from betas.

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

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harmonius_
Lord Xia
Join Date 03/2006
+148
Reply #10 October 1, 2012 11:36:54 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

They need to remove the HP penalty from pariden and resolin races, and then maybe give each race a special unit(like the henchmen, juggernauts, golems, slaves) to make each race balanced.  OR give a race that doesn't have a special unit, a third point to spend when designing their nation.

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harmonius_
Kongdej
Join Date 01/2012
+58
Reply #11 October 1, 2012 11:38:39 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting Lord Xia,
reply 11
They need to remove the HP penalty from pariden and resolin races, and then maybe give each race a special unit(like the henchmen, juggernauts, golems, slaves) to make each race balanced.  OR give a race that doesn't have a special unit, a third point to spend when designing their nation.

I would LOVE to see each race have special units only available to them, start with the premade races then rebalance the racial blood and trait picks so its "somewhat" balanced afterwards.

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

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