Playthrough: .952, custom race, 8 insane AIs, dense large map [Last entry]

The rules:

All settings maxed: Large map, dense everything, 8 insane AIs (no Capitar and Umber, to give AIs more room to grow)

No cheating, but full abuse of production rushing, city snaking, troop blocking, outpost spamming, etc...

No restoring except for crashes.

Start position: rerolled until I get at least a 3/4/2 location.

The handicap: Only Conquest and Alliance victory are allowed. In addition, the player nation will never declare war first, i.e. no steamrolling.

The insanely overpowered custom race:

Formal name: Kingdom of Men

Short name: Men

Race: Men

Advantages: Enchanters, Master scouts, Heroic, Wanderlust

Weaknesses: No ranged weapons, Vulnerable to magic

The leader:

Name: Lord Petar

Equipment: Procipinee's Crown, Rusty short sword

Talents: Brilliant, Clumsy

Magic proficiencies: Earth disciple, Life apprentice

Profession: Armorer

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Turns 0 - 26

I did not settle until Turn 2, but I got a river and a forest

Turn 2:

On the third try, I got a river near a forest, but the best tile (3/4/2) was four tiles away, so I did not found the city until turn 2. On the way there, Lord Petar collected a healing nectar, and passed through a library, which gave me civics.

As soon as he settled Mankind's Home, I cast "Enchanted Hammers" and "Inspiration", canceled all taxes, and set research to "Agriculture", starting with "Knowledge". I ordered the construction of a scrying pool, for an immediate boost of research and production.

One can't have too many pioneers.

I can use all the pioneers I can get

Turn 11:

Lord Petar spent a few turns killing weak mosters and getting a rusty shield, a skath claw, and an adept's robe. He also found an experience book that he gave Badra as he hired her.

Badra started exploring on her own, summoned a stone golem, and discovered a veritable bonanza of resources West of the capital.

My first pioneers were finished on turn 11, after a scrying pool and a logging camp. As they moved to build an outpost among the resources Badra found, they spotted a patch of fertile land North of the capital. I'm training more pioneers - I need at least four - one for a city, two for the resources, and one for whatever the champions find next.

I'm so glad my pioneers got here first.

I am so glad my pioneers got here first

Turn 14:

I had redirected the first pioneers toward the fertile patch, because the capital would be too busy churning out pioneers to develop the resources from outposts. They made contact with Altar, and caught a glimpse of Lord Relias, who by turn 14 was a merchant, a warrior, and an assassin with level III Fire magic, level II Air magic and 175 hit points.

It was bad luck to be so close to an AI, but Altar was unlikely to attack a Kingdom early on, and I had a good chance to pen them in the Northeastern corner of the continent.

Meanwhile, Badra had cast "Evade" on Lord Petar, and that allowed him to easily take out a troll, become an Assassin and continue exploring to the South. As for Badra, she was exploring to the West, and taking out wildlings, darklings and mites.

After the research on "Agriculture" was completed, I started researching "Administration".

Manufactorium

I hope Manufactorium lives up to its name

Turn 16:

I settle Manufactorium on a 3/4/2 tile. Its name is due to the clay deposits across the river. With a bit of snaking and dominion pushing, I will get access to them, and will turn this city into a manufacturing powerhouse. Also nearby are two prestigious locations and a pack of wild wargs. On a sad note, Lord Relias managed to recruit the researcher Jesselde before I could kick him off my lands.

I switch my research from "Administration" to "Shard Harvesting". I can use all the mana I can get, and I have already spotted three shards.

Lord Petar discovers another quest. I forgot to mention, the first quest was the alchemy spell one, and I left it for later, given that the Air shrills have a good chance to kill a low level hero on the first turn with their lightning range attacks.

Too many close neighbors

Such a crowded corner of the continent.

Turn 22:

In the South, Lord Petar meets Yithril. In the West, Badra meets Magnar. This is a very crowded corner of the map, and bad luck makes it that it's the two most aggressive Empires that I encounter. I cast "Set in Stone" on Manufactorium. I will try to rush pioneers and influence buildings to keep some land for my side.

After researching "Administration" I switch to "Mining", so that I can boost my production with workshops and masons.

Lord Petar walk to an Yithril shop, sells the pelts and worthless weapons he has accumulated, and purchases a horse. With the long stride boots and the horse, he's fast enough to challenge even much stronger opponents. Were it not for the self-imposed rules, he would have ended Warlord Verga right here and now.

Uneven fight? Yes, in Petar's favour.

The golem needs to land one hit. It will never even take a swing.

Turn 26:

With his horse, Lord Petar takes on the obsidian golems guarding the ruins of the Imperium. Each yields more than 300 xpt.

Badra is racing Magnar for the loot left as they defeat the weak monsters West of my lands.

Meanwhile Manufactorium is rushing one building per turn, sometimes spending money, but often racking the gold in, because its production capacity is 94. The capital is churning out pioneers every two turns, but, unfortunately, this is nowhere near enough to prevent Magnar and Yithril from capturing the resources Badra and Petar have discovered.

At this point, I think the initial exploration is over. The next stage is securing my lands against the opponents.

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You should do a "let's play" . I'd watch it.

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I thought about it, but I doubt it would be entertaining to watch without a lot of heavy editing. On Insane, combat is long and repetitive. The enemies have at least three times the normal hit points, and fighting involves a lot of dodging in and out, and running around the tactical map while regeneration does its thing.

And I am not really willing or even sure how to do the video/audio editing.

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Makes sense. I've watched a couple of different LP's and they are great. Still, keep up the good work.

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NorsemanViking

Join Date 03/2006

+19

Quoting Tuidjy,

reply 5

I thought about it, but I doubt it would be entertaining to watch without a lot of heavy editing. On Insane, combat is long and repetitive. The enemies have at least three times the normal hit points, and fighting involves a lot of dodging in and out, and running around the tactical map while regeneration does its thing.

And I am not really willing or even sure how to do the video/audio editing.

No, it would be fun. All other LP's are just the same boring stuff. Normal difficulty and settings made to ensure a win for the LP'er. No suspense at all. We need LP's that are a real challenge for the player. A real fight to survive against overwhelming odds. That's what's fun to watch.

An no editing please. They tend to edit away all the thought and strategy, and leave us with a little shell of some superficial action. Don't underestimate your audience. We aren't all americans here.....

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In case anyone is wondering why I post so seldom, it's because the fights are mind-numbingly slow. To kill an obsidian golem, Lord Petar needs to take about 200 swings. He can always dart in and out of reach, so there is no danger to him, but it is BORING! I need a break.

A few things I would like to point out:

1. The 'three turns minimum build time' rule is silly! Manufactorium has 95 production capacity before turn 30. Resource buildings cost about 40 points. Of course, Manufactorium rushes them each turn, but it's boring to have to check every turn and click that button. It would be ten times worse if the ability to rush was removed. I have an outpost that controls 5 resources. Should the city waste 15 turns to develop them?!

The solution I would love to see is that there is no limit on how fast buildings are finished, and that unused resources are applied to the next building/unit in the queue, even if this means that multiple construction projects are finished on the same turn. It feels good to have a manufacturing powerhouse.

2. The enemy HP multiplers on higher difficulties are kind of pointless. I play without reloading, so I never take risks. When I pick up a fight, I usually know that my hero can emerge unscathed. Having to chip away at three times as many hit points is boring.

3. I am not sure I like how the enemy sovereigns have multiple paths and silly levels of magic by level 5. It would be better if they had fixed upgrade paths, so that they could not only develop into an effective fighter OR mage OR assassin, but also it would give them personality.

This has nothing to do with balance. They end up serving my sovereign anyway, so if anything the change would make my style of play slightly weaker.

4. I personally LOVE city design and dominion pushing. Please keep the ability to snake a city and to convert enemy outposts and resources.

I have to say, I really enjoy Beta 4. I just hope that you guys do as great a job with the campaign as with the sandbox. By the way, if you release the game on Steam, I'll get myself another copy... Hell, I feel I owe you some money even though I bought Elemental on the first day. You have made it up two times over.

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Quoting Tuidjy,

reply 8

3. I am not sure I like how the enemy sovereigns have multiple paths and silly levels of magic by level 5. It would be better if they had fixed upgrade paths, so that they could not only develop into an effective fighter OR mage OR assassin, but also it would give them personality.

This.

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Yea, agree totally - x3 hp multiplier is simply annoying ...It removes usefulness of spells from a game, and prolongs battles ..

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Strongly agree To make insane harder and the fights faster try:

+2 move speed, x2 hp and x2 damage.

We need to lose on insane. Right now I am something like 6-0 on insane even with restrictions one game No settleing, no conquering, no towns, no research, no mana, no non-hero units. Just heroes.

Mike.

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Turns 27 - 47

I spent all my mana to reserve this patch for my pioneers, but it was worth it.

Turn 29: Both my cities are training pioneers - Manufactorium can actually produce one each turn and get 2 gold in the process.

There are a lot of resources, and whether I will capture them or not will be decided in a race. On the other hand, the patch of fertile land West of Yithril is too valuable to be left to chance. I cast "Arcane monolith" to deny it to the pioneers who made it there before mine could.

Meanwhile both Petar and Badra are exploring and fighting. Petar is clearing the ruins of the Imperium, while Badra is picking off darklings, wildlings, wolves and mites. She could deal with stronger opponents, but that would require buffs, and I am saving my mana for monoliths.

Petar, in his combat kit. Otherwise he uses the longstrider boots and a telescope

Turn 32: I settle a new city, Ruins gate, at the entrance of the Imperium ruins. By expanding it carefully, I will be able to keep everyone out of the ruins until Lord Petar is strong enough to clear them. So far he has been avoiding the Death Demon's army, while killing everything else.

Both my cities are still training pioneers, but I still don't have enough even for the outposts I have already planned.

Altar builds the Great Library, which prompts me to negotiate an alliance with them. They are almost as weak as I am, so the treaty does not cost more than I can afford.

The borders seem to have been drawn. Time to develop the resources.

Turn 35: My pioneers build a multitude of outposts, which control more than a dozen of resources. The research on "Mining" has finished, so all cities start building workshops, and get ready to switch to resource development. I begin researching "Henchmen" because I need fire and water magic, as well as someone who can collect all the loot that Petar and Badra were too busy to grab.

As one the outposts go up, I notice a Kraxis holding Southwest of my lands. They are less hostile than Yithril and Magnar, and as soon as I have the cash, I will try to broker a few treaties.

Hard to believe such a choice spot is still available

Turn 37: Somewhat to my surprise, a pioneer unit finds a fertile patch in the Northwest. A forest, a river, a shard and four units of materials. I cannot believe no one has grabbed it. The pioneers settles the the city of Riverhold, and start the construction of a logging camp.

The "Henchman" technology is researched, and work begins on "Construction". Petar heads back to the quests that he started but did not dare finish. Of course, by now, butchermen and air shrills will present no danger whatsoever. The influence gained by the quests will be used to recruit henchmen.

The wolf guards the library while the golem plans my next city

Turn 40: During her adventures, Badra has collected a golem and a wolf. When she spots a library and a fertile patch in the Southeast, she sends her companions to guard the locations until pioneers can make their way to them. By the time a crowd of enemy settlers shows up, I have the mana for an arcane monolith which I use to reserve the whole area for my side.

Badra continues South. To my dismay, she finds an Yithril city. It seems that Yithril has gotten around Ruins Gate, and is spreading to the South. This is really bad news. I redirect some pioneers that way, but the damage is done, and Yithril is loose on the world.

Manufactorium revitalizes a patch of land. And what land it is!

Turn 42: My first henchman, Alex the Fire Mage, walks out of Manufactorium to find Petar waiting for him. Alex reads two experience books, gets some decent mage gear, and joins Petar in the pacification of the homelands. In the very first turn, he gets to level 4.

I am surprised and very pleased to discover something I had not seen before. As Manufactorium's area of influence spears, the soils around it improves to the point where it becomes arable. One of available spots is nothing short of amazing: 4/2/4. It goes without saying, Manufactorium starts training another group of pioneers.

Badra visits an Yithril market, and buys a horse. Actually, she buys two, because some idiot doubleclicked, but I won't hold it against her. I have a decent mana income, so Badra finally gets her first buff, namely regeneration. It's enough for her to kill an assassin demon, and get an amulet of Haste. The game crashed, and on the replay, Badra got an amulet of Flames instead.

The Kingdom of Men at a glance

Turn 47: An unit of pioneers finally makes it to the arable land guarded by the wolf and golem, and settles Southwest factory. It has no essence at this point, but I will build a pool and cast "Set it Stone" on it. I need it to develop quickly, so that it can keep Kraxis influence away.

I also cast "Sovereign Call" on Manafont, because I intend to turn it into a conclave, and make it my main research facility.

Petar and Alex have more or less pacified the homelands. I will explore for a while, but when "Heroes" is researched, I will bring them home, and send them on as many quests as I can pay for. For now, I am still researching "Construction".

I think that this concludes the second phase of the playthrough, the Land Grab.

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Quoting Tuidjy,

reply 8

In case anyone is wondering why I post so seldom, it's because the fights are mind-numbingly slow. To kill an obsidian golem, Lord Petar needs to take about 200 swings. He can always dart in and out of reach, so there is no danger to him, but it is BORING! I need a break.

A few things I would like to point out:

1. The 'three turns minimum build time' rule is silly! Manufactorium has 95 production capacity before turn 30. Resource buildings cost about 40 points. Of course, Manufactorium rushes them each turn, but it's boring to have to check every turn and click that button. It would be ten times worse if the ability to rush was removed. I have an outpost that controls 5 resources. Should the city waste 15 turns to develop them?!

The solution I would love to see is that there is no limit on how fast buildings are finished, and that unused resources are applied to the next building/unit in the queue, even if this means that multiple construction projects are finished on the same turn. It feels good to have a manufacturing powerhouse.

2. The enemy HP multiplers on higher difficulties are kind of pointless. I play without reloading, so I never take risks. When I pick up a fight, I usually know that my hero can emerge unscathed. Having to chip away at three times as many hit points is boring.

3. I am not sure I like how the enemy sovereigns have multiple paths and silly levels of magic by level 5. It would be better if they had fixed upgrade paths, so that they could not only develop into an effective fighter OR mage OR assassin, but also it would give them personality.

This has nothing to do with balance. They end up serving my sovereign anyway, so if anything the change would make my style of play slightly weaker.

4. I personally LOVE city design and dominion pushing. Please keep the ability to snake a city and to convert enemy outposts and resources.

I have to say, I really enjoy Beta 4. I just hope that you guys do as great a job with the campaign as with the sandbox. By the way, if you release the game on Steam, I'll get myself another copy... Hell, I feel I owe you some money even though I bought Elemental on the first day. You have made it up two times over.

I really agree with all this

The hp multiplier on the higher levels are the only reason I stay away and and only poked the harder difficulties with a long stick, since it just gets tedious.

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

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Wow! I had never seen this before.

Check the picture for turn 42. As Manufactorium sphere of influence expanded, new fertile tiles became available. One is 4/2/4!

This is a great game mechanic. Has been around for long or is it new for Beta 4?

/////////////

Damn. My game crashed and I have no save since turn 40. The autosaves are all messed up. I'm going to have to replay a few turns. Some things may not turn out the same.

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Ogre nests have that effect,

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

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I think that by now, the second phase of the game has ended. I have grabbed whatever land I could, and now it is time to build up and specialize my cities, train my heroes and their henchmen, and somehow keep the bloody Empires from invading my Kingdom.

Time for my 'points':

1. Pioneer rushing is essential. My custom side is designed for it. I have both master scouts and enchanters, and my two cities were churning out more than one pioneers per turn. Still, pretty much everyone managed to wedge a few outposts in every crack my dozen pioneers had left. Without the ability to close my borders to foreign scouts and pioneers, and with the AI clearly being able to see the whole map, I have to cover every single resource on my lands, or the AI will plant an outpost and push my influence to the side.

That will not be a problem, because my cities will recover the land through an influence push, but without my own pioneer rush, I would have been left with two cities and a tiny corner of the map. Being crunched between all four Empires and an allied Kingdom is bad enough as it is.

2. The Random Number Generator is a bit screwy. I have explored barely a sixth of the map, and I am bordering five out of the eight opponents, as well as two wilderness areas. It makes for an interesting game, but I cannot help but wonder how great a time the other three Kingdoms are having with the rest of the map.

Also, I have found four Adept robes, more maces than I can juggle, and when Petar and Badra killed two obsidian golems each, they got the exact same items - a pair of champion boots and a champion helmet.

3. Once a hero gets a horse and regeneration, he becomes able to kill any melee enemies that move less than four paces per turn. It may take 500 combat turns, but one gets there. This could be made a lot more interesting and less cheesy by the addition of lower level companions to the golems, slags and the likes.

4. Speaking of horses, one should not be able to shop so easily at enemy stores. Yithril is hostile to me, but did not mind selling me the horse that turned Petar from a struggling level 7 fledgling into a level 15 killing machine. Make it so that you have to be at least "Neutral" to someone before they can sell to you, and make the price much higher depending on relations.

5. I am getting most of my income from rushing. Manufactorium has 140 production. It has had to develop about 10 resources, and that's 1000 gold in my pocket. I also dislike how production does not transfer to the next project, and that you cannot build multiple things per turn. The two problems (money from rushing and built speed limits) balance each other, but two wrongs do not make a right.

6. Finally, henchmen look amazingly useful. I erred by making mine a mage, because I did not realize that the mage levels that he was getting were not the real deal, but I think that a henchman could be easily developed into one Hell of a fighter or support commander.

Anyway. I am enjoying this game a lot. Usually I focus on combat with my uber-heroes to the exclusion of everything else. This time I am actually getting to really explore economic development.

By the way, I think the way to follow the playthrough is to wait for me to write a recap like this one, then follow the quick links from the first post to read one stage at the time. Or whatever

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Am enjoying the playthrough/commentary a lot. Am really curious, as to what will happen if AI is allowed to build up and take the initiative.

Good luck to you in ur further campaign

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I think your latest 6 points of wisdom is spot on, 6 items that kind of bugs me too, well meaby except for nr 2, the map shouldn't be completely squared and parallel all the way through, if you get my drift I do tend to find some items in huge avalanches, like some games I get like one trillion maces, the next game its all about these fancy daggers.

Quoting Tuidjy,

reply 16

4. Speaking of horses, one should not be able to shop so easily at enemy stores. Yithril is hostile to me, but did not mind selling me the horse that turned Petar from a struggling level 7 fledgling into a level 15 killing machine. Make it so that you have to be at least "Neutral" to someone before they can sell to you, and make the price much higher depending on relations.

I dunno how I feel about being able to purchase in other faction's shops. It means that paridens ability to purchase books will be everyone's ability all of a sudden, since they just pay a visit and purchase all the books anyways.

I think you should have to have the prerequisite tech yourself before being able to barter for the item in the enemy's shop, if able to use the enemy's shop at all. And meaby keep away faction specific weapons, armor, books and warhorses from reaching my greedy hands

I am happy you enjoy the game, I myself am waiting for a balance patch, seeing all the flaws in the current balance (Or being obsessed with the things I think is flaws ) just hurts my head

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

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Turns 48-??

Those whom Petar wishes to destroy, he first makes tiny

Turn 50: Magnar and Yothril are hostile, and are building up troops. Yithril in particular is worrisome, because its holdings are interspersed with mine, and it's already producing juggernauts. Those are nothing to sneer at, even for Petar - they have 200+ hit points and 75 blunt attack. In order to prepare for them, Petar and Alex hunt down forest drakes and slags.

Badra tries to clear the ruins of the Imperium, but her progress around the walls is blocked by yet another Yithril city. She heads back, killing monsters inside enemy territory, but comes short of tackling an ash dragon.

Meanwhile, all cities are busy producing growth buildings and pushing my dominion towards the neighbors' lands.

I don't mind illegal immigrants, I'll just assimilate them

Turn 53: Yithril and Magnar keep sending pioneers into my lands, and at some point I forget to kick them out. Two enemy outposts pop inside what I consider my borders, but I am not overly worried. As my cities grow, the enemy outposts will turn to my side, and the land will revert.

Manafont becomes a research conclave, and is building up very quickly, rushing a new building almost every turn. As it grows, the land around it become fertile. Unfortunately I cannot start a town there, because I would be unable to build anything - it is too close to the conclave.

My heroes keep training. Alex is shaping very nicely - as soon as Manufactorium finishes the Great Mill, I will train another henchmen, who will be designed as a fighter from the beginning.

The more Yithril builds up, the less of a chance I have. I may already have none.

Turn 56: Badra heads West to explore the rest of the world, and locate the remaining three Kingdoms. Petar and Alex kill the ash dragon that she scouted, but head back to the homelands, because Yithril is massing troops near the border. The confrontation seems inevitable. They have nowhere to expand, their military appears a lot stronger than mine... and may actually be unstoppable. In a normal game I would have never allowed Yithril to get off the ground. We'll see whether my handicap is survivable.

Dominion push. It works better than Magnar's outpost spam.

Turn 59: Manufactorium has completed the Great Mill, and is now a production powerhouse. I deliberately expand into Altar's direction, converting resources as my sphere of influence expands. I even start work on an useless study, so that I can stretch the city a little bit further.

As the land heals inside my borders, new settlement spots appear. My influence is spread thin, and my cities are barely growing, but quantity has a quality of its own, and I start training more pioneers.

Meanwhile, Badra meets Pariden in the West, while Petar and Alex scout as much of Yithril as they can, before they are firmly escorted to the border.

All these shards and resources make this a great spot for a far colony

Turn 62: Yithril builds the Treasury Vault, which makes its gildar income shoot through the roof. I'll be drowned in Juggernauts very soon. I do not dare move Petar and Alex far from the homelands, so I make them scout Altar as they wait for the "Heroes" technology. Once that is researched, they will be able to adventure near home.

I settle two new cities. Crystal Grove has a solid essence reserve, and will become a conclave. The Citadel is built on a lot of material deposits, near a forest, and will become another production center, and likely a fortress. I will expand it to block Yithril's shortest path into my homelands.

Meanwhile, Badra pushes West, and encounters both Tarth and Gilden. Between the Swamplands and one of Irane's cities, Badra locates an impressive concentration of resources. I claim the land using arcane monoliths, and send a pioneer to start a remote city.

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With the Beta 5 change-log posted, it seems that a lot of the strategies used in this playthrough are becoming obsolete. I was going for a strong economy and a pacifist approach, but with the changes to rushing and production costs, I dare stay that this strategy (on Insane) will be nonviable in the next release.

I am pretty happy how this game turned out, and rather proud of the fact that by turn 62, I am keeping up with most AIs, without using my superheroes to kill them in their infancy. I may try a pacifist approach again, if only to observe the AIs dealing with each other, but I doubt it will be on Insane.

For now, good bye to Petar, Badra, Alex and Boris, and thank you for reading!

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