Maybe the road should be to the nearest 'enemy' city rather than their capital?

It would be a shame if trade was left as is or removed because without it Elemental feels much less like a real living world. Historically trade has had a huge effect on civilization and to me having no trade is about as big of a hole as having no boats.

I think they should continue with the current road system but separate the trade system from it and add some depth.If you choose to try and maximize trade then you should be able to generate some Gildar but it shouldn't be necessary. It also shouldn't be overused and should have some opportunity costs. You should also be able to create trade cities, tons of historic examples exist.

One system I have though up is you could make an improvement that allows you to set a trade route to another city, instead of having to send a caravan it would be better if you could just press a button and click. The improvement would have an upkeep so it would only be worth building in some cities. You could only form trade routes to cities you have connected to with roads, so this is what economic treaties would do. Also instead of being a blanket 10% gold bonus to your city it should boost your city's gold production by a factor of the other city's gold production(before tax). The higher the gold production in the city you create the trade route to the higher the gold multiplier in your own city. This way you would only have an incentive to build trade routes between high gold cities instead of everywhere. You would also have a reason to create trade routes to the cities of other factions instead of just your own. I like this system because it is both simple and yet could result in interesting scenarios.

I think that trade and the resulting income should be separated from road-building. Roads can be either for trading or for war, as stated. And I also much prefer the civilization tile-by-tile road building, and the possibility for me, monsters or enemy nations to destroy them if I need to. With road-building separated into a separate 'construction' research branch of some kind, and given more tactical control, it makes it a bit more feasible to also incorporate into that branch things like wall-building and fort-building as world-map tactical options. With these kind of technologies in the game, it makes more sense to have separate research branches for the construction projects versus income-boosting trade options.

Don't forget the pathing fun that caravans introduce, forcing your armies off the roads.    IMO, they should dump the level 1 road graphics and use the level 2 or 3 graphics instead.  Roads are impossible to see in some situations.

yes but i still dont get it

can you think of any real, non flawed,  non lame use of a trade ?

i just cant figure any at all

whatever trade i could do there is ONLY ONE reason and just that to do it: because im getting something i really need and giving away something i dont need or something worth nothing to the player im giving it

there is no way with ai to have a fair trade, never ever

if anyone can figure out just 1 scenario where its possible i would be interested to know it

Ya I would love to see more incentives to both raid and protect caravans. I think it would be really fun to be able to play bandit and raid your enemies. Long trade routes through dangerous territory should be rewarding but also dangerous. If you don't want to have to protect it from other players and monsters don't build it.

I tend to look at it from a macro view instead of a micro one. This is why I love caravans, they have the unrealized potential to simplify trade but still make it deep and interesting. Instead of getting into the nuts and bolts of trading different resources you instead just get a economic boost. In real life it works pretty much the same way, trading allows people to specialize more and boosts an economy regardless of whats being traded at a micro level.

yes in real life

in a game the ai has no conscience at all about what is neeed and what not

maybe in a game like command and conquer with 2 resources at all its possible

in a game so much complex like this its not

also you didnt answer my question, why would i want to give the enemy something he has little of when i can give him crap?

yes but you dont get my point

the average value of resource means nothing in a strategic game

lets talk about civ

im 500 research far from nuke and i trade 500 research with an equivalent kind of stuff

my 500 research is worth 600 10000 times more than anything else

lets translate into FE

im about to recruit a lvl 9 champion and i miss 500 gildar, or i am about to build the brand new researched army and i miss 100 metal or crystal

i will make a "fair" trade following the economic logic but it will ALWAYS be a cheat for the player because he will only do the trade in a moment where the reserouce he get is worth much much more to him

thats the point

Well, hopefully there is a more Modern ecnomic theory, Nash equilibrium maybe, that supports that two nations can both help themselves and help each other to gain their goals.  There is a diplomatic end to the game too.

Ever play Settlers of Cataan? By that logic you should never trade in that game either, except that trading is often the best way to win. As long as a trade is mutually beneficial, both parties will come closer to winning and thus have an advantage over the rest of the players in the game. Your theory on trading only works in a binary system. Of course you should never trade with a direct rival or a warmonger that has shown his true colors.

Trade partners are a good thing if you are on good diplomatic terms and are working towards the same goals. For instance, as Tarth I would always want ton trade with Pariden and Altar. This is because they will tend to be looking for an Alliance victory, which means we can win together. I would not be as likely to trade with Empires as anything I give them will be used against me as you have said. I would also want lots of trade with a faction that is currently very weak and of the same allegiance as me. I want them to be able to hire heroes and build armies in order to make war. Since I cannot attack them without losing my other allies, I must trade them resources to build up their nation. Trade is more complicated than you imagine. 

The question the devs to need to ask is if their efforts in diplomacy will facilitate these extremely basic mechanisms. Anything less than what I describe would be a total diplomacy failure for the game. But we have no way of knowing much about the diplomacy intelligence until we see it in the beta. I am confident Fb has some smart mechanics in development.

I like the idea of a goods resource but would make it more comprehensive.

Instead of just recieving "goods" from buildings (bazzars) and special resources (Spice?) you could add both those things but make most resources have a "goods" value as well. Horses, Grain, Honey, Clay should give some small goods value that would make the nearest city a receive extra gold from caravans. It would be great if you could tax caravans that go through your cities as well. Goods could also have an effect on unrest.

I hope the devs at least make a Mod like this possible. It would be great if trade was expanded because it would add more to non military teams and allow more interesting diplomacy victories. No one will aim for a diplomacy victory with the current system unless they are just bored of their game.

True and annoying. The AI factions should have a goal and they should be trading between factions to accomplish that goal, whether buying horses or metal for military victory, buying crystal for magic victory or just amassing gold for whatever. I would love it if land(Outposts and Cities),troops and technology could be added to trades.

This sound about right. Especially the Settlers of Catan bit, love that game ... although if your the best of the group you can pretty much exploit humans too ... (as in Monopoly, as in real life, etc. )

I love the idea of caravans being the actual body that moves a resource, but it would cause so many problems I would not recommend it for this game. But it would be a sweet mod. Nice idea!