Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001

+2299

Elemental: The MUST HAVE 2010 TBS requirements

As reported elsewhere, Elemental will not be released next month but is tentatively scheduled for 3rd quarter 2010. Those of you who have been reading these journals of course have known that since last Fall but we had neglected to change the update on the store page.

So that we can refer to this journal entry later, we are not committing to any particular date. “When it’s done” is basically our time schedule. That doesn’t mean we’ll wait until every feature we can possibly imagine is stuffed in there before we release it but it does mean that we aren’t going to let an arbitrary date determine when it’s done either. This is our baby. It’s your baby. It’s something we’ve all been waiting for for a very long time and it won’t be rushed.

So what are the basic things we feel have to be nailed down? I.e. what are things that we absolutely essential? These are the things that would cause us to delay the game if we aren’t satisfied with them:

A rich world. The world the player plays in feels almost as rich and interesting as a pre-made fantasy world in an RPG despite being randomly generated.
A fun and interesting story-driven campaign. I love sand box mode but I want to make sure the game comes with a campaign that tells the story of Elemental.
An incredible single player experience. This kind of goes with #1 but what we mean is that when playing the game, the player feels like they are the center of a great epic story.
32 player multiplayer. This is a big one and will take a lot of work but it we are requiring that the game handle up to 32 players playing together. To make this work, it also means that games need to be automatically saved (to our servers regardless of whether it’s on a custom modded server or ours) so that stopping and starting games later is easy.
Fun tactical battles. The tactical battles have to be enjoyable enough such that a person might just want to play a tactical battle as a stand alone game but be flexible enough so that players can control how long they take (i.e. everything from instant resolve to epic tactical battles).
Fun civilization building. That means an economic system that is enjoyable to play by a wide range of player types which means a LOT of time to play test this once it’s mature to let us figure out what parts could be automated by users who don’t want to micro manage while letting other people micro manage if they want.
Beautiful on the high end, playable on the low end. This means that on that latest greatest AMD/nVidia setup you’ll be able to see amazing things visually. But it also means that on low end systems (like Netbooks) a player could also play it in purely cloth map mode if they want. The goal is to present different ways to play the game rather than crippling the high or low end experience.
Modding. Built in editors to let people create their own factions, maps, conversations, items, and other goodies as well as make sure more technical people can go hog wild on it. While I’m not promising the next part for release, my goal is to be able to take Elemental and create a Temple of Apshai game(a totally different game type) using Python.
Crazy magic battles. Rather than the late game being about mopping up, it’ll be about great powers doing insane things with magical spells. World changing things (think Populous).
Unique factions. Early on I made the stupid mistake of saying there are only two races in Elemental. There are lots of different races but they only come from two canon sources: Natural beings (like Men) and unnatural beings (The Fallen). The creature you see on this page would be a type of Fallen creature but is clearly not humanoid. While we won’t have elves, orcs, unicorns or fairies in the game, we intend to let people easily create their own (i.e. if you want your Half-men race complete with its own body, tech tree, magic spells, ability to farm faster, etc. you can do this). I imagine eventually players will have hundreds of different “races” (species) to play against.

That’s just 10 quick things right there.

The best way to know how things are going is to keep an eye on what public beta is out there. Use THIS POST to keep track. We won’t go to BETA 3 until we are happy with the game mechanics and general fun potential.

Note: This doesn’t mean all players will agree with us on what constitutes “fun”. I guarantee there will be posts that will point to this very entry claiming that we agreed to have “fun civ building” but we went back on that because “fun” to that person means mining ore, smelting it, sending it to a shop to be turned into a sword, having the sword shipped somewhere else stored in a warehouse and then equipped (hint: we don’t stockpile resources in Elemental). So we aren’t trying to be all things to all people. But the above should give you an outline of some of the things we think are very important.

If you think I left something out, post below and I’ll either answer YES. NO. Or some lame cryptic marketing answer.

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Denryu

Join Date 07/2006

+93

OK, it all sounds great except for the last paragraph. there are parts that don't concern me at all such as multiplayer, but everything else sounds wonderful.

I am sorry to see the resource stockpiling is definitely out, I was still holding out hope that down the road that would be open to discussion. I won't rehash the reasons why I don't like the resource handling as it is; there is still so much about this game to love.

If anyone knows of a good civ-type game (fantasy setting a plus, but not necessary) that does have resource stockpiling and a deep, detailed, and micromanageable economy, I'd like to pass some time waiting for Elemental checking it out.

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Frogboy, thanks. My main concern is that certain developers will be beaten to death by their loved ones because they have failed in their quest to vanquish evil,jumping rodents from their homestead.

In all seriousness, man, you guys really are a breath of fresh air. Not really sure if I can say it better than that. It's rare (or at least in my opinion it's rare) that you see a group of guys truly wanting to put together something that is polished and fun. My gaming experience has waned over the years because a lot of companies just want to throw some craptastic game together with spiffy graphics and terrible gameplay. I think the last game I bought I played through it once and it never saw the light of day again. For $50 I got no fun out of what I purchased for a game that had absolutely no replay value and very little in the way of anything other than nice looking graphics (not to mention was incredibly hard on my computer graphics-wise, hell I could barely play it). If I wanted to look at pretty graphics, I'll just go watch a movie. I was going to give up till I saw Elemental's mention on the "coming soon" section of Stardock's main page. That was months ago and updates like the one you just gave make me giddy as a mouse in a fishbowl. Meh, I am babbling... anyways good luck and thanks again.

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Sounds like it will be the best strategy game of all time. Keep up the good work.

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Only thing I would add, though it is probably covered under 1, is there should be the greatest possible amount of variety in the randomly generated content. This was a huge plus in Gal Civ 2, you never knew what was going happen next with random events. There seems to be so much more room for different kinds of elements like this in Elemental ((such as quests, lairs, wandering monster armies, dungeons ect.). Seeing new things as much as is reasonable to put in the game could make this THE fantasy TBS experience.

This could also be a great place to add in mini-expansion packs after release, because there can never be enough variety in this area.

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Over all sounds good. Only thing I'd say is that modding is #1. To me, modding is what makes a great TBS great. I still play Civ 4 mostly because I and others can mod the hell out of it. It also can help bring other people in.

For example I got two of my coworkers hooked on Civ 4 with a god mod. More or less, with this mod you play a civ that gets all the special units and buildings and such. Makes the game much easier, of course. However, it was what they ere looking for. Neither is very good at TBS games and neither was out for a real challenge. They wanted a fun nation building experience that was forgiving to their mistakes.

So, in my book a very moddable game is high priority.

However, above all else, I'd say just make sure you don't fall in to Duke Nukem Forever syndome. Whatever Elemental is, it'll be way better if it is out and playable than forever in development. Doesn't seem like that's a real threat, I've played the betas after all, just saying. I always get a little nervous when companies say "When it's done," because that sometimes means "never."

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Hawawaa

Join Date 09/2006

+31

I was wondering when you guys were getting around and saying ops not Feb. Lots of people are probably like ah crap!

But hey longer it takes to release the better the game will be! Its will be 50$ well spent!

Nice artwork at the top. Recruitible creature I hope.

Im glad your adding Multiplayer! This game will sell loads more. I don't believe we will have to worry about adding it. And tacticle battles add on to the original choices of instant and just plain old watching armies fight it out is another good choice! 32players... is goin to be inzane but in a good way!

Can't wait to hear more info on Dynasty, Heros, Generals and Leader units. Also any word yet on espionage system?

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Wintersong

Join Date 07/2006

+235

Quoting ,

quoting post

A fun and interesting story-driven campaign. I love sand box mode but I want to make sure the game comes with a campaign that tells the story of Elemental.

I foresee people complaining that they can onlyplay the good guy and that there is only one ending.

The customs unit, will be close to The Political Machine 2008 or to Spore? I suppose than to The Political Machine 2008, especially due to equipment (unless equipment can receive similar treatment of customization), but it doesn't hurt to ask what you expect. And no, when I say Spore I don't actually expect such level of detail creating a creature. More like: choose between different parts vs choose between different parts and tweak as wished.

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kyogre12

Join Date 07/2008

+100

So very exciting! Epic tatical battles sounds like a lot of fun. I can just imagine the late game 10,000-man armies going at each other

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awuffleablehedgie

Join Date 04/2009

+60

that dog is sexy

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Could we get a wallpaper of that dog in say... 1650 x 1050 ? PLEASE ?

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Quoting Denryu,

reply 1

OK, it all sounds great except for the last paragraph. there are parts that don't concern me at all such as multiplayer, but everything else sounds wonderful.

I am sorry to see the resource stockpiling is definitely out, I was still holding out hope that down the road that would be open to discussion. I won't rehash the reasons why I don't like the resource handling as it is; there is still so much about this game to love.

If anyone knows of a good civ-type game (fantasy setting a plus, but not necessary) that does have resource stockpiling and a deep, detailed, and micromanageable economy, I'd like to pass some time waiting for Elemental checking it out.

Try ANNO 1404

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First my question when you say "Crazy magic battles" will it be possible to have them in a duel like format?

As for the rest fun tactical battle + 32 player multiplayer + awesome single player = epic win if you ask me. Although I would like to see diplomacy in the top 11 since diplomacy often gets the short end of the stick.

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Quoting ,

quoting post

If you think I left something out, post below and I’ll either answer YES. NO. Or some lame cryptic marketing answer.

Will Elemental have my baby?

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Quoting ,

quoting post

This is our baby. It’s your baby. It’s something we’ve all been waiting for for a very long time and it won’t be rushed.

win.

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Crazy magic battles. Rather than the late game being about mopping up, it’ll be about great powers doing insane things with magical spells. World changing things (think Populous).

This was good about Master of Magic. The longer the game dragged on, the more powerful/overpowered some of the spells, global enchantments and summons you researched got. Eventually you had the (not so) instant win Spell of Mastery which would break any stalemate, but which took a long time to research, almost as long to cast, a great amount of mana and of course you couldn't cast any other non-combat spells while casting it.

My god, Master of Magic was (and still is) awesome. Not very balanced, but awesome fun.

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For me its coop capabilitys that are important, its more than just alliances, its a full range of interconnectivity between whatever you happen to be in control of (be it bullets and healing in an FPS or resources and transport ships - which he always forgets to build). Im talking about Co-op vs the ai but it dosn't really matter what your enemy IS, its the working together that counts.

Civ4 really hit that coop stuff well. Id like to see Elemental try for the same.

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Quoting awuffleablehedgie,

reply 9

that dog is sexy

Unclean Beast will be in Elemental?

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While I know I like Elm...

"I guarantee there will be posts that will point to this very entry claiming that we agreed to have “fun civ building” but we went back on that because “fun” to that person means mining ore, smelting it, sending it to a shop to be turned into a sword, having the sword shipped somewhere else stored in a warehouse and then equipped."

...would also be fun to me. Heh.

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Quoting ,

quoting post

32 player multiplayer. This is a big one and will take a lot of work but it we are requiring that the game handle up to 32 players playing together. To make this work, it also means that games need to be automatically saved (to our servers regardless of whether it’s on a custom modded server or ours) so that stopping and starting games later is easy.

Totally agree but does this mean no LAN? Or is that only for playing online?

[qoute qouting="post"]

Fun tactical battles. The tactical battles have to be enjoyable enough such that a person might just want to play a tactical battle as a stand alone game but be flexible enough so that players can control how long they take (i.e. everything from instant resolve to epic tactical battles).

[/quote]

I'm still curious, having battles instant resolve can work because battles don't historically take long, but how will sieges work? I don't think they should be able to be auto-resolved as sieges historically can take months or even years, the siege of Candia lasted 21 years! Granted not all sieges lasted that long but still there have been plenty of long sieges:

Siege of Ishiyama Honganji

Siege of Harlech Castle

Just to wiki two.

I have a question about specs, what exactly do you consider "High End"

I have a 9800gt 512mb

AMD Phenom II Quad Core 3.1 Ghz

4 gigs DDR2 1066 Ram

I know this isnt High End in the gaming industry but this has been MORE than enough for GalCiv and Sins And from what I gather from your posts it will be more than enough to play Elemental but I'm a sucker for maxing things out, what are the odds I would be able to?

Other than those points this is really shaping up to be one of the best games I have ever played!

I just want to say thanks for putting up with me and my continuous inquisitions.

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If you manage to deliver on these ten it will be the best game ever!

Personally I don't care too much for 32 multiplayer but have nothing against it.

The only thing to emphasize would be that it stays, basically, a strategy game. The "rich world" should not be allowed to make it more or less random who wins, and the "crazy magic" should always be well earned ... But I'm sure you are in full control there.

To really make the game experience unique, I would agree with what was mentionend above: please include insane amounts of events, objects, spells, buildings, units, etc ... The goal would be to make the player feel that every new game is like an unwritten Story, being written as you play, and just like in any good book you never quite know exactly what will happen.

When you as developers feel you are basically done, then add 20 spells, 20 events, 20 creatures, 20 magical items etc. It would be a good investment. Just so that the game will really be unique in its variety and richness - anyone playing it for long would definately note the difference.

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Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001

+2299

Re Sieges in Elemental:

Sieges in Elemental are particularly powerful because so much of a city's resources come from other cities. Place units around a city and those resources will get penalized more and more. Thus, you can starve a city out.

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Philocthetes

Join Date 10/2003

+152

Very nice job of balancing ambition with caution in the OP wording. Two questions:

1) Will multiplayer include some sort of RPG-oriented, cooperative context where a 'player' acts as host/game-master with the ability to assume control of AI civs and add creatures/objects to a live game map?

2) What do the Fallen call themselves? (I'm thinking of distinctions like rebel vs. freedom fighter or the Forsaken vs. the Chosen in the Wheel of Time, with a perhaps mistaken expectation that we'll be able to play through the campaign as both kingdom and empire factions.)

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I like this topic!

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Quoting Frogboy,

reply 21

Re Sieges in Elemental:

Sieges in Elemental are particularly powerful because so much of a city's resources come from other cities. Place units around a city and those resources will get penalized more and more. Thus, you can starve a city out.

YES! That is pretty much exactly what I was hoping for. You guys rock more and more every day.

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Nice looking doggie that!

Are there still plans for a 64 bit version?

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