Scoutdog

[quote]75% of the vote went to either "its critical" or "its important". I'm not seeing the problem. People clearly do want it, but only if it actually adds fun to the game.[/quote]Again, the loud people effect crops up. There may not be very many of them, but they make such a big deal out of it that there appear to be more.

[quote]I'm just curious, do you consider me a loud person, Scoutdog?[/quote]No, actually I don't. I won't name names, but the loud people are the ones who come into a forum with vague, absolutist ststements and don't listen to agruments..... and usually don't shut up unless they think everything is exactly the way they want it.

zig, I'm not saying that it's a completely deterministic system: just as long as the RNG creates exceptions as opposed to norms, it's OK.

[quote]I don't have a particular problem with magic following magic rules. What I'm trying desperately to avoid is the "it doesn't matter, it's magic" camp getting any traction into Stardock's thinking. The laws don't need to follow reality exactly; in fact they can't if there is going to be magic involved. Siphoning energy from some sort of elemental plane clearly isn't going to follow the conventional laws of thermodynamics, but it needs to follow something that serves the same basic purpos

Speaking as a proto-"Swicordian", I just have to say that while some sort of linear, "Legal" framework is necessary to keep the game world in some sort of casuality (but more to "justify" strategic mechanics), having those laws be overly reminiscent real-world physical laws would suck a lot of the fun escape vaule out of the game. The no-free-lunch situation could be explained in all sorts of ways that are not exaclty the laws of thermodynamics (although they have the same general gist): gods

[quote]And if we can start with a simple economy according to Frogboy and from there make it grow along the beta, why not a espionage system?[/quote]Well, the beta is one thing, and I don't really mind sliders, but since everything costs dev time, there are other things we could devote it to as opposed to a system that isn't much fun and sets the loud peopole off again.

The only problems are that: RNGs do not reward skill, and encourage just save-reloading. They also have a tendancy to get on people's nerves, especially when placed "ontop" of each other (one RNG leading to another leading to another ad infinitum(sp?)). You get through the first series, then the next bumps you back. It makes it very difficult to coordinate a strategy, since you don't know largely what your next move will be.

True, as a dedicated GC2 "culture warrior", I agree that combat is overrated. However, I also agree that slider espionage is not fun....... plus it would inflame the "loud people" again......

I'm beginning to like the new tech system..... infinite possibilities, but without sacrificing tech variety or resorting to unfair RNGs.

Yeah, and the final quest in the sequence: "Come up with an espionage sysetm that makes everybody happy." [e digicons]8O[/e]

Seconded. But I suppose I'd prefer to have my devs..... "devving" as opposed to twittering....

[quote]That would require them to notice this thread, which assumes they pay attention to anything other than their inane, repetitive demand for more glitz over gameplay. Demands which, no doubt, will quickly turn towards 'gearing the game towards a wider audience' once they start playing.[/quote]I've started to notice that..... it almost seems like a "symptom" caused by a deeper prolem, as if they're feeling emboldened by the general trend twoards a few loud people dominating the forum and

[quote]Quite simply, you are missing that science is a means of viewing the world, not a definition of what you find there. If some "magical" force was found to be behind quantum physics (and really, can you tell me there isn't?) scientific knowledge would expand to fit the new information into existing frameworks. Likewise, technology is the application of scientific knowledge to practical purposes. Really, ANYTHING can be viewed as technology, whether you're talking about a screw

[quote]i would very much like to see, the teleportation of you sorcerors tower ( or this games equivelent of a tower )[/quote]At this point, I doubt that there will be a sorceror tower: the soverign (wizard) is a unit capable of moving on its own. If you wanted to go the essence-spending way it probably would be best to remain sedentary, maybe buind a few special things in your city, but there's no reason you would have to do that.

I agree that it would be a long series of increasingly difficult quests, but the big challenge in my eyes is figuring out which quest path to pursue (this assumes that not all quests count towards the master quest, because that wouold really suck the fun out of it). How are you going to decide whether to behead Samos The Strong or reunite 16 peices of the Gorgon's Sword w/o knowing in advance which one leads to the path?

That was....... strange............ but fun............... in a strange way........................... why...... am...... I..... using............ so .......... many............................ dots...........................................?

It doesn't. Now it just poisons you. I wish that nasty scratch on my Metroid Prime Echoes disc would go away.

Banned for having red eyes.

[quote]What, prey tell, is the issue with the regular system Scoutdog?[/quote]Well, an endurance system is basically just an abstraction of individual units, which are a bit tougher to manage (more caveats and exceptions). Like any abstraction, it is intended to reduce complexity while maintaining most of the initial purpose of the mechainc. [quote]I think its fair to assume that you recruit individual men in large numbers to create an army, and not a civ4 style abstract unit[/quote]D

[quote]Maybe I'm overly harsh,[/quote]Yes, actually you are. Even the GC2 system had a little bit of a thrill factor wshen I went on a spy blitz, and when I didn't feel like dealing with it in a particular game, I just turned espionage off.

[quote]So the RNG would not be success/fail, it would really just determine how long the process took to infiltrate.[/quote]That's still a bit too random for my tastes. RNGs should ideally be the exception, not the rule: critical hits, and the like. In this situation, good RNG placement would be maybe a 3% chance of the process taking a fgeww turns longer or shorter than usual.

I think this is espionage, perhaps a truer stystem of espionage than just info-gathering, especially for a fantasy setting. I also understand how much you hate RNGs (I loathe them, too), but I think that they are easy to circumvent, provided that people want to kick them.

EXCELLENT! I would throw away my old PhotoShop3 and go streaght to GIMP if it wasn't for the fact that GIMP apparently has no shape-making tool..... which my style of art creation relies heavily on. If anybody knows where it is (and I've looked everywhere), please tell me....

[quote]there is no good way of doing it that doesn't beg for save hit try it, if it fails load, repeat till the great random number generator in the sky smiles on you.[/quote]I would hesitate to agree with you there: a streight-up skill matchup has no random elements. EDIT: However, you have an excellent point that a real spy wouldn't just steal stuff, (s)he'd arrainge for it to be moved legitimately.

General Homsar gets his avatar fixed. Now it can't get female avatars pregnant. I wish my school's robotics club would start up again.