marigoldran

marigoldran

Joined Member # 5438169
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Reply to The Gal Civ II Economic Model Worked because it was based on LINEAR growth. The Programmers Screwed Up the Math Behind Gal Civ III in Galactic Civilizations III GalCiv3 Forums

Long story short: The only way to make money in Gal Civ II is to spend money. You want more pop and more income? Set taxes super low to get more pop growth. Unfortunately, that will bankrupt you quickly. Especially if you're also spending money building colony ships. You want more colonies? Unfortunately each new colony capital costs a crap ton of maintenance. EVERY new colony starts at an economic negative overall on the higher difficulty se

39 Replies 222,400 Views
Reply to The Gal Civ II Economic Model Worked because it was based on LINEAR growth. The Programmers Screwed Up the Math Behind Gal Civ III in Galactic Civilizations III GalCiv3 Forums

In other words: The major difference between Gal Civ II and III is that in II factories did NOT increase the productivity of a planet. What factories did instead was they CONVERTED economic productivity from population into other forms like starships. In contrast, in Gal Civ III factories and starbases directly INCREASE the productivity of a planet, leading to exponential feedback loops. Building a factory on a planet increases the economic productivity of a

39 Replies 222,400 Views
Reply to The AI and the GCIII economy. in GalCiv III Future Ideas GalCiv3 Forums

The major difference between Gal Civ II and III is that in II factories did NOT increase the productivity of a planet. What factories did instead was they CONVERTED economic productivity from population into other forms like starships. In contrast, in Gal Civ III factories and starbases directly INCREASE the productivity of a planet, leading to exponential feedback loops. Building a factory on a planet increases the economic productivity of a planet, thereby increasing the

19 Replies 33,504 Views
Exponential behavior is when acceleration in X leads to further acceleration in X. Factories and starbases increase economic productivity, which increases the speed at which more factories and starbases can be built. This is exponential growth. in Galactic Civilizations III GalCiv3 Forums

Duh. The major difference between Gal Civ II and III is that in II factories did NOT increase the productivity of a planet. What factories did instead was they CONVERTED economic productivity from population into other forms like starships. In contrast, in Gal Civ III factories and starbases directly INCREASE the productivity of a planet, leading to exponential feedback loops. Building a factory on a planet increases the economic productivity of a planet, th

1 Replies 9,395 Views
Reply to The AI and the GCIII economy. in GalCiv III Future Ideas GalCiv3 Forums

[quote who="Kreissig" reply="15" id="3586681"] [quote who="marigoldran" reply="13" id="3586673"] We need to diagnose the problem before finding the right solutions. The problem is not unknown. I should have written that an argument about the "definition" of the symptoms would not solve the problem. However, arguing about the symptoms of an illness has never cured anyone. Only action matters. A German saying is roughly, "don't fight w

19 Replies 33,504 Views
Reply to The AI and the GCIII economy. in GalCiv III Future Ideas GalCiv3 Forums

As you increase your production, the rate at which you can increase your production increases. This is exponential growth. Consider: first constructor takes 8 turns. Now that your planet is surrounded by an economic starbase, it can now produce the next constructor in 7 turns. Now that you've got 2 economic starbases, you can now build the NEXT economic starbase in 6 turns. By the time you have 2 economic starbases and TWO factor

19 Replies 33,504 Views
Reply to The AI and the GCIII economy. in GalCiv III Future Ideas GalCiv3 Forums

We need to diagnose the problem before finding the right solutions. Stardock programmers are apparently not very good at math. For some silly reason they think the planetary production wheel is the root cause of the evil. IT IS NOT. Consequently it's necessary to beat them over the heads with multiple threads on this issue before they'll start to understand.

19 Replies 33,504 Views
Reply to The Fundamental Balance Issue With this Game is Too Many Things Increase Economic Production. It Actually IS Exponential Growth (Before flattening out into Quadratic Growth, and Eventually Flattening into Linear Growth) in Galactic Civilizations III GalCiv3 Forums

Unfortunately during this whole process, the amount of REAL LIFE TIME required to accelerate IN-GAME PRODUCTION also increases exponentially. Late game turns can take 20 minutes or ore building starbases and putting buildings on planets and what not. At some point you give up because it's pretty obvious you've won. I treat the game as the equivalent of taking showers repeatedly, with the benefit that this game DOES NOT INCREASE MY WATER BILLS. &nbsp

10 Replies 32,204 Views
The Fundamental Balance Issue With this Game is Too Many Things Increase Economic Production. It Actually IS Exponential Growth (Before flattening out into Quadratic Growth, and Eventually Flattening into Linear Growth) in Galactic Civilizations III GalCiv3 Forums

1. Population. 2. Increased raw production from economic starbases and interstellar governance techs. 3. %bonuses from planetary buildings and other starbase modules. Increase pop by 10%, increase raw production by 10%, and increase planetary bonuses by 25% (a factory) and you get 1.1*1.1*1.25 = 1.5 = 50% increase in production. The 50% increase in production means that you can get the NEXT 50% increase in production even faster. Because

10 Replies 32,204 Views
Reply to The AI and the GCIII economy. in GalCiv III Future Ideas GalCiv3 Forums

Ok, fine technically it's POLYNOMIAL TO THE POWER OF THREE growth. But that doesn't sound nearly as awesome as IT'S EXPONENTIAL GROWTH. According to Taylor series, it's hard to tell apart between the two in short time frames. EXPONENTIAL GROWTH CAN BE APPROXIMATED (up to a certain point) USING POLYNOMIAL FUNCTIONS. BASIC CALCULUS. Regardless of what it's called, the basic problem is Gal Civ III economies in the hands of a com

19 Replies 33,504 Views
Reply to The Gal Civ II Economic Model Worked because it was based on LINEAR growth. The Programmers Screwed Up the Math Behind Gal Civ III in Galactic Civilizations III GalCiv3 Forums

There are actually three linear growth models: 1. Population. 2. Raw production (economic starbase module, Interstellar Gov bonuses). 3. Percent production (buildings and various starbase modules). The three working together scales exponentially. It's a MAJOR problem for balance issues. AND CAPITAL LETTERS DON'T MAKE NOISE. [e digicons]>:([/e]

39 Replies 222,400 Views
Reply to The AI and the GCIII economy. in GalCiv III Future Ideas GalCiv3 Forums

But it is. 2 factories with adjacency bonuses provide +60% production (+25% from each one plus +10% from adjacency). Add a third with adjacency bonuses and it becomes +120% production (+25% from each one for +75%. 3 adjacency bonuses means an extra +15% on each factory. 75+15*3 = +120%). Arrange 6 factories in a hexagonal pattern around 1 factory and you get: 7 factories * 25% = 175% (base factory production ignoring adjacency) Central

19 Replies 33,504 Views
The Gal Civ II Economic Model Worked because it was based on LINEAR growth. The Programmers Screwed Up the Math Behind Gal Civ III in Galactic Civilizations III GalCiv3 Forums

Economy in Gal Civ II was based on pop. More pop = more credits that can be CONVERTED to something else. Since pop grows linearly, that meant economic growth was linear and predictable. And relatively easy to control. The factories and labs in Gal Civ II actually provided ZERO ECONOMIC BENEFITS. What they did instead was they CONVERTED the economic credits from POPULATION to something else like starships or research. THIS IS FUNDAMENTALLY VERY DIFFERENT

39 Replies 222,400 Views
Reply to The AI and the GCIII economy. in GalCiv III Future Ideas GalCiv3 Forums

The adjacency system needs to be nerfed. Keep the planetary production wheel, but nerf adjacencies. The problem is that with your adjacency system, you've developed an economic model that grows EXPONENTIALLY. Giving the AI bonuses isn't going to work in an exponentially growing system. Too much bonus and the human never catches up. Too little and it stops mattering once the human gets to the accelerating part of the exponential curve.</p

19 Replies 33,504 Views
The Soviet Five Year Plan for the Global Production Wheel in Galactic Civilizations III GalCiv3 Forums

1. New planets immediately build 2-3 factories (and the hive if you're the Thalan). The factories are there to build research labs and/or colony ships depending on need. Global slider can be initially set at 80/20 production to research. 2. With Colonizer bonus, any planet can begin with a shipyard. The goal of the 3 factories is so that the newly colonized planets can spam out colony ships and/or research labs. 3. On

1 Replies 10,696 Views
Reply to The Doing away of the wheel!! in Galactic Civilizations III GalCiv3 Forums

What's going to happen is that every new planet is going to be built in exactly the same way. That is the most optimum path if the planetary production wheel is removed. Basically the developers are removing the fun parts of micro management while keeping the boring parts like starbase spam.

36 Replies 112,842 Views