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Difficulty Levels Revealed

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Difficulty Levels Revealed

from Stardock Forums
What difficulty levels do players, and their empires, really prefer? The Spymaster's latest report reveals the truth about a large sample of the current Metaverse spanning 520 players in the 13 top empires.

Gerakken's toughness scale is not meant to measure maximum difficulty level played, but the current preferred levels of play based on recent games. The last 3 entries on a player's record are checked against a scale, averaged, and rounded back to the nearest category. Losses, anomolous scores, and scores from old version games that did not report difficulty are ignored. The preferred sample is 3 games, but if a player has only one or two valid scores, the record is still processed.

The scoring scale is based upon game difficulty:

1 Cakewalk
2 Easy
3 Simple
4 Beginner
5 Normal
6 Challenging
7 Tough
8 Painful
9 Crippling
10 Masochistic

To use a fictitious player record as an example, say the last three games were normal (rated 5), painful (rated 8), and crippling (rated 9). Those add up to 22 points. The average would be 22/3=7.33 rounded down to 7. The player rating is tough (7) on the scale.

422 player records out of 520 contained eligible scores. The scores are listed as a composite of all players combined and are also broken down by empires. Empires are rated on a similar toughness skill to players. The overall rating of each valid player record in the empire is averaged together. Empires with less than 10 usable player records are not listed in the empire breakdowns because the sample is too small to get a real empire toughness, but their players still appear in the composite.

Here are the empire breakdowns, in ascending order of empire toughness:

CDG Creations League
Cakewalk : 0
Easy : 0
Simple : 5
Beginner : 2
Normal : 2
Challenging: 1
Tough : 0
Painful : 0
Crippling : 0
Masochistic: 0
Toughness rating: 3.90

Canadian Star Federation
Cakewalk : 5
Easy : 3
Simple : 9
Beginner :12
Normal :15
Challenging: 7
Tough : 1
Painful : 3
Crippling : 0
Masochistic: 1
Toughness rating: 4.36

Jedi Republic
Cakewalk : 1
Easy : 1
Simple : 3
Beginner : 7
Normal : 3
Challenging: 0
Tough : 1
Painful : 4
Crippling : 0
Masochistic: 0
Toughness rating: 4.70

Apolyton
Cakewalk : 2
Easy : 4
Simple :10
Beginner :18
Normal :15
Challenging: 6
Tough : 4
Painful : 8
Crippling : 3
Masochistic: 2
Toughness rating: 5.03

ANZAC
Cakewalk : 4
Easy : 0
Simple : 2
Beginner : 5
Normal : 8
Challenging: 3
Tough : 1
Painful : 1
Crippling : 4
Masochistic: 1
Toughness rating: 5.14

European Alliance
Cakewalk : 3
Easy : 5
Simple : 8
Beginner :11
Normal :16
Challenging: 9
Tough : 5
Painful :10
Crippling : 4
Masochistic: 1
Toughness rating: 5.22

GROSS
Cakewalk : 2
Easy : 1
Simple : 6
Beginner : 2
Normal : 7
Challenging: 8
Tough : 4
Painful : 7
Crippling : 4
Masochistic: 1
Toughness rating: 5.79

Gamma Squad
Cakewalk : 0
Easy : 2
Simple : 1
Beginner : 3
Normal : 5
Challenging: 2
Tough : 0
Painful : 5
Crippling : 3
Masochistic: 0
Toughness rating: 5.86

MWC
Cakewalk : 0
Easy : 1
Simple : 4
Beginner : 3
Normal :14
Challenging: 6
Tough : 5
Painful : 6
Crippling : 6
Masochistic: 0
Toughness rating: 5.97

The Fellowship
Cakewalk : 0
Easy : 0
Simple : 1
Beginner : 3
Normal : 7
Challenging: 7
Tough : 4
Painful : 7
Crippling : 9
Masochistic: 0
Toughness rating: 6.76

The composite rating of all 422 eligible players in all 13 top empires:
Cakewalk :17
Easy :17
Simple :50
Beginner :70
Normal :92
Challenging:52
Tough :29
Painful :54
Crippling :35
Masochistic: 6
Toughness rating: 5.36

Anything less than 4.5 on the empire toughness scale represent empires whose players are laid back about difficulty level. A 4.5 to 5.5 represent empires who take a middle of the road approach to difficulty. Anything above 5.5 represents an empire that is leaning toward harder games.

In my research, I have found 4 general types of player records:
1. The traditional climb of starting low and levelling off at some point higher on the scale.
2. The peak and drop, where a player starts low, climbs to a certain height, and then drops back down to a comfortable difficulty level.
3. A straight line: the player starts at a certain difficulty and rarely deviates from it.
4. A lab rat/wild record scenario where difficulty changes very often.

I feel this is a fair scale no matter what the pattern of the record. It does not exclude newer players with few scores on the board, but the three game sample also does not discriminate against older players with long records.

I may make empire difficulty breakdown a standard feature in my Major Empires thread to better help players pin down whether any of those empires are right for them. For the moment, though, I just present my work here for evaluation and commentary. May these numbers prove useful.

Edit: Attempted chart formatting.
[Message Edited]
24,156 views 134 replies
Reply #51 from Stardock Forums Top
Sorry Gerak... I think I grabbed the wrong sticky and didn't notice. My apologies...
Reply #52 from Stardock Forums Top
Thanks Gerraken. If the maso honor roll includes those who have won at maso then add Blue Steel and me. That makes at least 20 total so the numbers playing maso are higher than ever (in my 3 months here) and growing quite rapidly - or as you desribe it, "maso madness" LOL.

Rick
Curtains - Customize Windows with additional styles
Reply #53 from Stardock Forums Top
Why am I not on the maso honor roll, I'm just about to start my fourth one and hopefully I'll break back into the top 20 after I finish :D
Reply #54 from Stardock Forums Top
Gerakken looks at average difficulty over last 3 games so at least 2 Maso and 1 Crippling for example.

~SDC~
Reply #55 from Stardock Forums Top
My last 3 are all maso :notsure:
Reply #56 from Stardock Forums Top
Gerraken has been giving weekly updates so all is cool but I was just trying to figure out how many were playing maso. When Ray asked over the last few months, it always seemed less than 10 active maso players. Now there are over 20 and maybe closer to 30?Interesting . . .

Rick
Reply #57 from Stardock Forums Top
My last 3 are all maso
End of quote


Ger did his last review on 24 Sep. You have 1 Maso game on 24 Sep and 2 on 25 Sep.
He could very well have missed them all.

You'll be on the next honor roll. :)

~SDC~
Reply #58 from Stardock Forums Top
Gerraken has been giving weekly updates so all is cool but I was just trying to figure out how many were playing maso. When Ray asked over the last few months, it always seemed less than 10 active maso players. Now there are over 20 and maybe closer to 30?Interesting . . .
End of quote


According to one of Ger's old review, there were only 8 Maso players 20 days ago.

I think the numbers have tripled now.

~SDC~
Reply #59 from Stardock Forums Top
I think the numbers have tripled now.
End of quote


All thanks to the transformation of the metaverse into the masoverse ;)
Reply #60 from Stardock Forums Top
There were a few "near maso misses" on the list. But rules are rules. You need 29 out of 30 possible points to get on the maso list for that day's report. When I was running the numbers that day, kryo rated 28 points for the two masos and one painful on file at that time. Close, but no cigar.

Expanding the honor role to include everyone currently in the top whatever who ever won a maso game is not something I endeavor to do, no matter how much it may have pained me to see someone like Staffa fall off of this latest report because of those crip games. If someone else wants to post a farther reaching maso memorial (either here or in another thread) for the past maso players who have taken up less difficult games as of late, feel free to do so.
Reply #61 from Stardock Forums Top
Well I just posted my 5th maso so at least I'll be on the list next time :)
Reply #62 from Stardock Forums Top
Here is a current top 50 report.

Top 10 Players
Cakewalk : 0
Easy : 0
Simple : 0
Beginner : 0
Normal : 0
Challenging: 0
Tough : 0
Painful : 0
Crippling : 0
Masochistic: 10
Toughness : 10.00 A perfect ten. Here be the Masoverse.

Top 25 Players
Cakewalk : 0
Easy : 0
Simple : 0
Beginner : 1
Normal : 2
Challenging: 1
Tough : 0
Painful : 1
Crippling : 3
Masochistic:17
Toughness : 9.00 The air is getting a little thin up here.

Top 50 Players
Cakewalk : 0
Easy : 0
Simple : 0
Beginner : 2
Normal : 5
Challenging: 2
Tough : 2
Painful : 2
Crippling : 9
Masochistic:28
Toughness : 8.76

Maso Player Honor Roll:
Aldar
Base Delta Zero
Black_Shade
Cotal
Essex99
established
Jaws the Wayfarer
Jeff Desilva
Jimmy Chung
JordanVmp
Killa Koala
kryofx
latino holiday
Lord Orpon
Lothmorg the Red
Matthew Downie
Mauler28
Maxtipherous
PontiusBruinPilot
Qui-Gon Jinn
Ray the Wanderer
ricbayer
Solitair
Stydracos
TheoLeo
vincible
Wild Wombat
wirtzs

Orphans: 8 of 50.

Gerakken's Editorial Corner: Methinks the Maso Honor Roll has outlived its usefulness in today's Masoverse. It used to be like a badge of honor, a hard-earned war medal. Now it seems more like a mere formality, such as awarding a diploma for graduation. The outlook for the near future is quite evident. Soon, the Maso Honor Roll will be as simple as looking at the first page (or even first two pages) of the top players list.

The "impossible level" and any mystique around it is no more. Maso advice can be readily found and unless the AI can be somehow beefed up, the only way to make things tougher would seem to be to pad the maso level aliens with even more bonuses.

From my observations of the various posts and player records, it looks like the best analogy to use is that of a magic show. We all know that the illusionists use a variety of special effects and optical tricks to give the appearance of doing the impossible, but, in order to be entertained, we need to supress reason and flow with the show, having a belief in something other than what we "know" is possible and impossible. It looks like the magic show that is maso level has an audience full of scientists dissecting every inch of the act, trying to rationally explain every little detail. None of the magic is left, for no one is there to appreciate the show for its entertainment value.
Reply #63 from Stardock Forums Top
Wow. Thanks Gerraken. I was wondering when the top 10 would be the masoverse and it looks like it took about 3 weeks since the release of 1.1. It is not only the scoring that drives the pursuit of maso but also a natural progression for players who have played for months and some concern that if we play lower levels we will now trip a "money-flag" and get anomalous scores. I find maso very fun on 1.1 - much more fun than sub-maso levels - so there is still some magic there for many of us. As long as it is fun I will keep playing. Thanks for your report. :)
Reply #64 from Stardock Forums Top
However, it's still worth noting that regular games at lower levels can keep you high up the charts at the moment - provided you submit them regularly, say three or four times a week or more. A huge normal or challenging can yield the same sort of scores as a small maso game!

Alex


~SDC~
Reply #65 from Stardock Forums Top
I started at the lowest setting because at first I couldn't figure out how to play the game effectively. Then I upped the level each game until I won one at Maso. Having found that so difficult that I didn't have much fun, I lowered it a few levels and continued to play at a level I thought was more enjoyable. So I fit exactly into one of the categories originally described.

Then I took a few months off... So when I came back I lowered it some more. I decided I needed to learn how to fight. Most of my previous wins were diplomatic or tech dominated affairs. I've been raising my difficulty every night since, and last night was my first attempt at Maso. again. I could have won, but I made an alliance with the Torians at one point so we could take out the Arceans who had become too powerful. Combined we should have been able to take him, but the Torians completely bungled their war effort and we lost.

So tonight I'll go for another Maso game. Here's hoping I'll get only my 2nd Maso win, but first by military victory.

I still think the game is more enjoyable slightly lower, as there isn't as much pressure to grow and build in a specific way. Gives you a little more flexibility. That's just my opinion though.
Reply #67 from Stardock Forums Top
Woohoo, finally my 2nd Maso. victory. That one took me several attempts. I'm clearly not a player that should be playing on that level. My style of play is almost impossible at that level, the AIs are just way too aggressive.

No big deal, I enjoy it at lower levels more anyway, just wanted to prove to myself that I could do it.
Reply #68 from Stardock Forums Top
Well,

It's not complete and there are still a ton of things I want to add to it, but here is a metaverse stat thingy I wrote. Much credit to the MWC's own Kasualkid for writing the perl scripts to suck data from the metaverse and lotsa lotsa credit to GreenReeper and Kjartan on irc.stardock.com for helping me with sooper noob PHP/mYSQL questions :HOT:

http://idle.thehueys.com/midwest/empireapp.php

Like I said, lots to do yet, but still pretty cool, I think you stat geeks will appreciate it :)

idle

~SDC~
Reply #69 from Stardock Forums Top
Any chance of somehing correlating size with difficulty? Ie. are the maso games on smaller maps?

~SDC~
Reply #70 from Stardock Forums Top
Did you look at the size of the Universe at all? Distributino of planets?
End of quote


Well, bluntly put, I find that of little relavence. The reason is that a map can be manipulated according to certain play styles. For example, if one wishes to assure dominance over the AI's by having more systems, then going tiny/rare and getting lucky with cntl-n will leave the player with a system advantage that will basically guarantee a victory from the early game barring any bad disasters. The enemies are at the mercy of a small alpha strike later on. On the other hand, going abundant on larger maps and then taking a speed advantage can lead to a mass culture flip scenario later on (the alpha strike option is still available; it would take a lot more ships, but this is nothing that cannot be fixed by turning off cultural victory and letting the flips happen for those cheesers out there). The point being is that map size and system density are more like frosting on the cake to determine the critical mass of systems to control. The tiny/rare player may end up controlling only two systems most of the game, but his AI opponents are also likely only controlling one or two. Easy pickings. A gigantic abundant player can end up controlling several dozen systems at the end of the colonization phase, facing opponents who may also have a lot of systems themselves. It just takes longer to wear the aliens down.

My take on the situation comes down to this: difficulty and map size do not have to have a definite correlation. Not all maso players keep cranking tiny or small maps in order to keep the critical system mass small, and not all lower difficulty players go for large maps to boost scores. While some people may choose smaller map sizes for better control (as in system domination), it is my belief that players are more likely to choose map size to determine how long of a game is desired.

Domination of the Meta is a never ending battle between how fast a game can be played vs. how much score in the end, tempered by the 30 day block system adjustment. I have seen players try to dominate both ways, with score bombs of slow gigantic games on tougher difficulty levels and a rapid flurry of smaller maps on easier levels, and everything in between. Because of this lack of obvious pattern, I regard system density as irrelevant and map size is more of a score vs. time factor. There does not seem to be a situtation where players all say that maso/tiny/rare is the way to go, for example.
Reply #71 from Stardock Forums Top
quote from Gerakken

Maso advice can be readily found and unless the AI can be somehow beefed up, the only way to make things tougher would seem to be to pad the maso level aliens with even more bonuses.
End of quote


Hope not, there are many exploits that can be address in the game as a whole hopefully befor SD start just tacking on more bonuses to social production, millitary production, influence, diplomcy and research. That does nothing for the dynamic AI reputation of this stratergy game . . .

I made a resonable attempt at listing at least some of these somewhere or rather . . . 80% I'd say could be fixed and would make Maso a whole lot harder and imho more fun too . . . :)

[Message Edited]
Reply #72 from Stardock Forums Top
I think doing something about armies of Constructors is the first step to make every level more difficult!

It's too easy to win any game by building just constructors. I've done it at every level up to, and including Masochistic.
Reply #73 from Stardock Forums Top
Okay, I can now beat Masochistic anytime I get a decent start using pretty much just constructors.

The AI at this level are clearly well beyond my skill level but they are completely unable to deal with my cultural influence attacks. They seem to try to stop me by building their own starbases but this is not effective. They can not compete with the quantity or the speed I build them at. They should simply detect what I am doing and declare war because their fleets are massive and I have 2-3 battleaxes in port. :-)

I find it odd that early in the game, the AI is so quick to declare war on me because I'm weak, but when their very civilization is threatened by my huge cultural influence, they don't see that as a threat.

Yesterday on a medium map, there was one sector in the very heart of the Torian empire that was adjacent to all but one of his planets, but contained none of his planets. A perfect location for me to build 8 party palaces, and yes, you guessed it. I pretty much completely wiped out the Torians without a warship, and building starbases in only 1 sector.
Reply #74 from Stardock Forums Top
Gerakken has come forth from his secret lair to give a small glimpse into the State of the Metaverse. This is a 50 player snapshot. The traditional top 10 will be skipped due to being wholly consumed by the Masoverse, so I will jump right into the top 25 tier:

Top 25 Players
Cakewalk : 0
Easy : 0
Simple : 0
Beginner : 0
Normal : 1
Challenging: 1
Tough : 0
Painful : 0
Crippling : 1
Masochistic:22
Toughness : 9.60. The Masoverse has almost overrun this tier as well.

Top 50 Players
Cakewalk : 0
Easy : 0
Simple : 0
Beginner : 2
Normal : 3
Challenging: 1
Tough : 1
Painful : 0
Crippling : 7
Masochistic:36
Toughness : 9.18

The Masoverse is upon us, so what was extreme has become more mainline. This has inspired me to look in the other direction, to the players who have not been fully indoctrinated into maso ways but still manage to hold onto a top spot in the rankings. These are the Anti-masos, although many of these will soon graduate into the rest of the Masoverse:

Airwreck
arobertson
Berserk74
Chiacow
EBZeroMatrix
Hurley
Mayito7777
Technician
The FrolickingMan
TJ1
The NewfyScotian
user-friendly

Orphans: 10. Still 20% of the top players running around without an empire.

Gerakken's random end notes: I realize a lot of the older hands here have graduated into maso level games due to experience and a lot of recent strategy guides. That is to be expected. But I have these thoughts sometimes about what will happen if a day comes where too many raw recruits basically start off on crip or maso due to all the guides. Are they denying themselves a chance to fully explore the game due to too much information? I am by no means saying not to help people. That is against my philosphy and the open nature of our forum. I am simply stating that getting all the answers up front blunts the quest that is searching for the answers and the growth that comes from the experience. We all get stuck, and there is no shame in getting help over a small hurdle after being stumped for a while trying to figure it out, but I advise any who seek total knowledge of what is Galciv to not cheat yourself out of the journey of discovery by getting all the answers up front. If I am dropped into a subterranean maze by an evil dictator and need to fight my way out to survive, I would sure like a map alright. The traps and perils of the side passages could kill me! But if I wander into a park maze on a leisurely walk, it would be a shame if I already knew where to go. What sights would I miss by going directly down the direct path to the exit?
Reply #75 from Stardock Forums Top
I think Maso is going to be a lot harder in the next update. A lot of people are probably only surviving at the moment by using 1 IP bribes.


~SDC~