Creationism & Hubble

from JoeUser Forums

Creationists must go ballistic when reports of Hubble’s peering back into time approaching 14 billion years.

Is it a matter of human ego that the universe was created by a Judea-Christian God? Surely, the believer of the Big Bang must feel hurt that he has not been graced by the will of God. For where lies the satisfaction whose beginnings is a mere piece of erratic stardust?

Copyright © 2004 Richard R. Kennedy All rights reserved. Revised: December 13, 2004.

http://stevendedalus.joeuser.com

religion
5,416 views 45 replies
Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top
or whose ending is much the same...


So, you believe that a person who does not accept the theory of Creationism does not believe in the existance of an afterlife?

IG
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Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top
What is your personal belief?

IG
Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top
Yes, but who or what created the big bang?
Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top
It wasn't something from nothing
Right, there is an unending before.
Reply #10 from JoeUser Forums Top
Right, there is an unending before.


Why not. An expanding then contracting universe. We could be living in the 4th or 5th incarnation of the universe. Each new big bang giving rise to a new shuffling of the cosmic cards. Creation and destruction played out on the unfathomably grand scale.

Over and over until an ending event or until the cause has stopped.

It wasn't something from nothing


That's the question. Isn't it. what was there before the big bang, and if the universe is expanding, what is it expanding into?

IG
Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top

Right, there is an unending before.

That is faith.  because Scientist dont have the answers, so any answer to how the Big Bang was created is not science, it is a religion.

Gotcha!

Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top
so any answer to how the Big Bang was created is not science, it is a religion.


I would think it is more theory, a hypothesis based on evidence, than religion, unless you consider having faith in science a religion.

IG
Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top


I would think it is more theory, a hypothesis based on evidence, than religion, unless you consider having faith in science a religion

No,that is the trap.  For science says nothing of what preceeded the big bang, not even a theory.  So if one is to 'believe' any hypothesis, it is not based upon science, but faith.

Reply #14 from JoeUser Forums Top
No,that is the trap. For science says nothing of what preceeded the big bang, not even a theory.


Science always has a theory: Link


It is just that they are not sure. It is a theory that has to be proved or disproved. This will come with time and scientific advancements in detection and observation.

Also, a hypothesis is not be be "believed". It is a thought that has to be verified.

IG
Reply #15 from JoeUser Forums Top

It is just that they are not sure. It is a theory that has to be proved or disproved. This will come with time and scientific advancements in detection and observation.

And it is not mainstream.  For there is no evidence to even form a hypothesis. Such is faith!  Even scientist have it!

Reply #16 from JoeUser Forums Top
Well, there is some, but it is nothing conclusive. They are still in the formative stages, trying to decipher what they have, but yes, it does require a certain amount of faith in science to keep looking.

IG
Reply #17 from JoeUser Forums Top

Well, there is some, but it is nothing conclusive. They are still in the formative stages, trying to decipher what they have, but yes, it does require a certain amount of faith in science to keep looking.

Aha!  So those who will believe have nothing to fear, and those that dont, only have faith to fear!  !

Reply #18 from JoeUser Forums Top
So those who will believe have nothing to fear, and those that dont, only have faith to fear


I am not sure what you mean. Believe in what? And fear what? Faith should never be feared, only some of the faithful.

IG
Reply #19 from JoeUser Forums Top

I am not sure what you mean. Believe in what? And fear what? Faith should never be feared, only some of the faithful.

It means the farther Science pushes back the boundaries of knowledge, there is always that thing that requires a belief.  For in the end, I dont think Science can explain it all.  just get to the root of the begining.  And then what?  You see, I am not a bible thumper, but I do believe in God.  In the end, something came fiirst, and that is faith.  For both religious people, and men of science.  They never will find a source.  For that is what faith is all about.  So when they try to destroy (or subjugate) Christian faith, they wind up just going the faith route from a different angle.

It does not make me right, or them wrong.  But then I dont lose sleep over it as I know, and they are trying to prove me wrong.  in time they will understand, you cant prove a vacuum.

Reply #20 from JoeUser Forums Top
It means the farther Science pushes back the boundaries of knowledge, there is always that thing that requires a belief. For in the end, I dont think Science can explain it all. just get to the root of the begining.


True, science just expands our knowledge of where that beginning is. In the past 100 years we have made great strides in understanding our world, and things that were once thought incomprehensible or impossible are now, while not commonplace at least accepted as part of the norm.

It will be interesting to see just how deep the rabbit hole goes. How far will our imagination and science take us?

Is there a stopping point, or just layer after layer of discovery? Are the layers already in existence or does God just keep digging the hole deeper?

Too "grassy knoll"?

IG
Reply #21 from JoeUser Forums Top

It will be interesting to see just how deep the rabbit hole goes. How far will our imagination and science take us?

Is there a stopping point, or just layer after layer of discovery? Are the layers already in existence or does God just keep digging the hole deeper?

Yes, the onion theory!  In the end, it still comes down to 'we dont know'.

And I left off the last line as I dont care to go there.  We will know.  I just dont know when.

Reply #22 from JoeUser Forums Top
Ok, let's say for the sake of argument, that a diety or dieties is/are at the center of the onion.

Question: Do you believe that we as corporeal beings, with the advancement of science, can find the center, or will we need to shuffle off the mortal coil, to slip "the surly bonds of earth to touch the face of God"?

IG
Reply #23 from JoeUser Forums Top

IG, it is late and you pose a great question.  I will revisit it in the morning.  Just wanted you to know you are very stimulating, but after hours out in the frigid (My wife and her Xmas decorations!), I am beat!

 

I will respond soon!  Fascinating!

Reply #24 from JoeUser Forums Top
Is there a stopping point, or just layer after layer of discovery? Are the layers already in existence or does God just keep digging the hole deeper?
Great probing.
if the universe is expanding, what is it expanding into?
Perhaps only to collapse upon itself and begin again?
Reply #25 from JoeUser Forums Top

Perhaps only to collapse upon itself and begin again?

The 2 theories, expanding forever, and eventually colapsing upon itself, are getting equal footing now.  But both are fascinating to think about.  IN the first case, that would tend to indicate the big bang was a one time thing (so where did it come from?).  The second would indicate that it has happened before and will continue to happen, but what was the catalyst for the very first one?  For everything has to have a beginning, unless we get into quantum physics and time warping, which I know nothing about.

Question: Do you believe that we as corporeal beings, with the advancement of science, can find the center, or will we need to shuffle off the mortal coil, to slip "the surly bonds of earth to touch the face of God"?

IG

Having slept on this, I feel that eventually man will 'touch the face of God' in time (if we dont kill ourselves off first).  But in the end, the eventual knowledge is going to come from a facet that I dont thihnk we are even intelligent enough to imagine yet.  Based upon my response to Steven above, perhaps there is no beginning, and we just dont have the capacity to imagine that yet.

But having lived through some fo the most exciting times in human history, I dont put any limitations on what man can accomplish in time.  I just dont know what the answer could possibly be.  Thinking about it, could make you go crazy with the Chicken and Egg question.