[SUGGESTION]: Possible solution to unit weakness and hero/unit misbalance – unit classes and terrain modifiers (no need of new features though!)

For me (and clearly I am not the only one), the solely greatest problem FE has are its mundane units. Generic, no flavor, weak and unsympathetic…

I tried to think up a solution that can be easily implemented without requirements of any new feature or advanced game mechanics. And I think this solution lies in unit classes and terrain modifiers.

  1. Unit classes – most of you know that, it is history proven, realistic derivation of “rock-paper-scissors” approach. Units should be concentrated in several classes, defined by their gear and armor that would benefit them with certain material and real benefits, but also weaknesses in comparison with other class.

Basic classes could include (brainstorming):

-        Light infantry – weak armor, agile (high movement + init), attack + dodge bonuses on bad terrain (forest, swamp, desert), defense + dodge penalty on good terrain (plains)

-        Heavy infantry – heavy armor and weaponry, hard hitting (lower movement + init), attack + dodge penalties on bad terrain (forest, swamp, desert), attack + dodge bonuses on good terrain (plains)

-        Spearmen – different armor but always armed with spear, terrain bonuses depending on armor, huge attack bonus vs. mounts and vs. monsters

-        Archers (mages) – light armor, accuracy and attack penalties on bad terrain, accuracy and attack bonuses on good terrain, big accuracy and attack bonuses on hilled terrain and in cities – when defending, further attack bonuses vs. spearmen

-        Mounts – very agile, substantial attack + dodge penalties on bad terrain, attack and crits bonuses on good terrain (plains), huge attack bonus vs. archers, some attack bonus vs. light infantry

-        Assassins (henchmen?) – hero killing specialists = substantial penalties vs. regular units, huge bonuses vs. heroes, magic resistance, maybe some cloak options on strategy map?

-        Monsters (juggernaughts, golems, ogres) – fine as they are.

Unit classes could either be hard-coded (select class when designing unit) or defined softly when assigning armor and gear (guy with spear? -> spearman class, with all appropriate bonuses and penalties, daggers? -> assassins). By introducing this system, not only the game will gain much realism but it can be also much simpler to learn AI to counter different strategies. Remember Galciv2… Player coming up with godly heroes? Field assasins. Relying on cavalry? Slaughter him with spears. Coming with armored infantry and archers? Ambush him in woods with light infantry and monsters. Racial bonuses for different classes (Tarth = light infantry & archers etc.) would then be top of the cake.

This mechanism (hundred times proven in Warlords, Fantasy general etc.) is obvious and according to my opinion, would really help the game. It would give great spirit and logics to the whole mundane unit system.

 

2. Terrain modifiers – already requested by DsRaider here: https://forums.elementalgame.com/432258. Really, giving terrain additional importance apart from movement only is a crucial thing that any 4X game cannot miss. I am not forcing you Stardock guys to implement it into tactical maps, as you clearly do not like that:), but it should play huge role on the strategic scale. Tile the battle is on should define the terrain and all the bonuses and penalties. Start battle against light infantry on swamp tile? Courageous. Dare to wander with archers across plains near enemy´s band of cavalry? Suicide. And so on. Also, different factions should have different allegations with respect to the terrain.

-        Tarth – forest guys, light infantry and archers, may also have spell to plant forest around their domain, weak cavalry

-        Altar, Kraxis – cavalry guys, best on plains, weak infantry

-        Resoln – love swamps, best with monsters and assassins

-        Pariden – best on plains, with infantry and magic

-        Gilden, Yithrill – heavy hitters – heavy infantry, spearmen, best on hilly terrain, weak archers

-        Magnar, Capitar – no preference, well rounded but generally bit weaker troops (slaves/mercenaries), Magnar could have bonuses near volcano area:)

I consider classes and terrain modifiers to be huge addiction to current FE concept, which can even help solve some long term issues like heroes/units misbalance. These are my general thoughts how they could be implemented, the best thing is that it requires no new features or game mechanics, but only tweaks in statistics like attack, defense etc. bonuses.

So my final question, what do you guys think? And how about Stardock opinion, possibly? I am completely wrong or does it have some ratio…?:)

5,673 views 7 replies
Reply #1 Top

Sound concept, might also give the terraform spell some new twist (create hills/plain etc)

The thing I love most about tis idea is the Herocounter with the asssasin. Currently nobody (I know of at least) equips daggers, this would be a great niche and create some interesting fights where lower level goons would have at least a sporting chance against hero, as long as dagger is equipped.

Suggestion for mechanic: Possibility with a % to inflict a 'severe wound' (instead of improved criticals) - effect: remove 25% of max hitpoints  - so a troop of 9 daggers with a chance of 2 or 3% for EACH dagger hit for a 'severe wound' would suddenly be something to avoid like the plague.

Making it necessary to bring ur own troops to counter etc.

I like it!

I think this would require quite some effort to implement, much more than simply some numbers to be changed. (assassin effect, how AI would use the counters, reduction/increase of combatvalues depending on terrain, those values to be shown in UI based on location on map etc....).  So the earliest time of implementation would be an expansion in my view.

Still a good idea :thumbsup: in my opinion.

Reply #2 Top

Interesting concept. I would imagine such terrain bonuses would have to be intergrated into tactical combat aswell in order for the faction's units to take advantage of their home turf...

 

Reply #3 Top

Thx for positive responses! Yeah I know is not that easy to implement, but it seems like very logic and obvious system for me.

What can be done within the current system? Hero nerf, some new units with current gear...maybe with lots of folks complaining, some new juggernaut-like units? I am afraid that wont break the ground...

 

Such global change like unit classes and terrain modifiers would help the game a lot, at least in my eyes.

Reply #4 Top

interesting ideas.  Most of the class bonuses could be tied to the weapons (spears vs mounts and assassins using daggers are great ideas).  does armor weight affect initiative?  that might be your heavy vs. light infantry there.

Reply #5 Top


@stein220: yeah, that is definitely a way to distinguish light vs. heavy.

 

I know the whole concept is a bit chunk to implement, but i still hope at least the most obvious things get in, like:

- spears attack bonuses vs. mounts

- archers attack bonuses in urban combat

- cavalry bonuses on plains

- some unit/gear/trait bonuses vs. heroes etc.

And at least SOME terrain modifiers would be great as well... but hope is the only thing I have :pout:

Reply #6 Top

I don't think stuff like this is going to happen (this is definitely a "new feature"), but I suggested a similar system way back in the day.

https://forums.elementalgame.com/415944

Reply #7 Top

@Heavenfall: Yeah, thats it! Sad if any of those ideas wont make it...