[Beta5] Improving Terrain and World Generation

Unfortunately because of the terrain system in use by FE it has problems with making terrain and random worlds interesting over multiple games. Not that I don't like the system, it just has drawbacks. Right now the worlds created by FE seem more like golf courses to me then biological worlds. Large greens/purples with sand and water traps. I'm not calling for a huge redesign simply some changes to how existing assets are used.

Deserts and Wastelands both look and act the same.

What is the point in having both deserts and wastelands in the current system? I think wasteland needs to be differentiated from desert a little more by making it slightly greener/purpler. It just has to be unfertile land and distinct from fertile land, not completely dead land. Also small patches of desert are pointless. They need to be larger so that they stand out more. Deserts should be great natural barriers that reduce movement and expansion, not 4x4 patches of sand. Thus deserts would gain a unique purpose. Think crossing the great desert.

All rough terrain. Like Swamp and Desert are functionally the same.

While these terrain types look different and spawn different monsters they are basically functionally the same and are not diverse at all. You can't build on it and it reduces movement, the end. An attempt has to be made to differentiate different terrains from a gameplay perspective. This could be done by adding unique resources like marble and spices that spawn only in certain environments. Swamp could reduce vision, boost lightning damage, or etc. Cities built near certain terrains should get some sort of bonus.  Swamps should have ponds in them, Goddie huts that look like ponds already exist, some ponds like these would look great mixed in with the trees in swamp terrain.

Swamps should be small areas that cluster together with fertile land between them. The mingling of swamp and Fertile land would be much more interesting then  just blobs of swamps every once and awhile. Having a city surrounded by swamps would make for a nice change. As mentioned above Deserts should be huge sprawling things that act as natural barriers. A swamp map should play differently then a Desert map.

Not enough rough terrain types.

Swamps and Deserts are not enough. The game already includes other types of rough terrain in Wildlands. There is no reason map generation can't throw in a small random volcano or snow area. This has been called for many many times but again it would be awesome to have snow terrain at the poles on larger maps. Like a real world instead of a golf course. We have tons of snow monsters that never get seen because they exist only in a single wild-lands. Crazy.

You can only build on fertile ground and all fertile ground looks the same. Either purple or green depending on who owns it.

Fertile and unfertile land near desert could be yellowish like African plains. Near snow it could have white flecks. This would give the impression of climates and a real diverse world instead of one big uniform golf course. You could even add Oasis that spread fertile land to deserts so you could found cities in them. 

Map Generation Options

I like the new world generation options but have one issue. The type of map like Swamp/Desert/Mountain should be a different option then the fertility. These are really two different categories and splitting them would allow much more customization.

 

If changes something like these are made then the randomly generated maps in Fallen Enchantress will feel much more unique and interesting. Right now it feels like players are constantly playing in one little area with only one climate. This hurts immersion and world building. More biological worlds with more differentiated terrain would add a lot to Fallen Enchantress.

5,612 views 12 replies
Reply #1 Top

I'd love to see some terrain variety in the strategic mode.

Ex:

Desert - Units regenerate life half as slow.

Swamp - all units suffer -1 movement in tactical as well

Hills - all units gain +20 ranged dodge, tactical maps have various stones and hills around them

 

This is certainly an area I'll be modding when the game is released.

Reply #2 Top

When modding is opened up, I hope to see some tutorials on how to make our own stamps and mod the vanilla ones. I could spend hours adding in specific terrain features and strategic scenarios. For one thing, I think most mountain passes should be one tile wide. Since a tile is hundreds of miles, it would be better in both representational mechanics and game mechanics to have this kind of choke point. I like the idea about having each tile offer some special strategic penalty too. And finally we can start making many more tactical maps to correspond with different tile types. There is much to be done.

Reply #3 Top


I'd like to recommend having a "world-wrap", both east-west and north-south, in the map generation. Too many times I'm 'cornered' with only one way to expand. Makes for a boring, bottlenecking, type of game.

 

Reply #4 Top

I'd certainly like to see some monsters gain bonuses and malus for movement and combat on different terrains.  That might even apply to some champions, as well, depending upon race.

Reply #5 Top

ANd whats up with beaches? It kinda bugs me that the whole world is one giant raised terrain.

Reply #6 Top

Quoting Bobofett, reply 6
ANd whats up with beaches? It kinda bugs me that the whole world is one giant raised terrain.
End of Bobofett's quote

 

An effect of the cataclysm perhaps?  I could foresee sea travel being introduced in an expansion.

Reply #7 Top

I know that since there's currently no naval and no real reason to have coasts and differentiate bodies of water.  I instead agree with the above because larger land mass type maps need diversity.  I'm thinking the range of terrains from Colonization or FreeCol.  Also agree that there needs to be some narrow places or choke points every once in a while. Also, varied terrain means varied fertility / materials / essence. 

 

Having some unit traits that deal with one or two types of terrain may be interesting.  like having labor cost of 12  or 24, but providing -25% or -50% reduced move penalty.  

Reply #8 Top

Quoting seanw3, reply 2
When modding is opened up, I hope to see some tutorials on how to make our own stamps and mod the vanilla ones. I could spend hours adding in specific terrain features and strategic scenarios.
End of seanw3's quote

I am also looking forward to making my own stamps and map types. I have already been experimenting with creating custom terrains but need the mod tools to proceed further. Hopefully if we don't get snow I can mod it in fairly easily, I am just worried about setting it to spawn at the poles. Should also be able to add ancient ruined city stamps.

Quoting GFireflyE, reply 3

I'd like to recommend having a "world-wrap", both east-west and north-south, in the map generation. Too many times I'm 'cornered' with only one way to expand. Makes for a boring, bottlenecking, type of game.
End of GFireflyE's quote

In my mind this is exactly what nautical travel is for.

Quoting Bobofett, reply 6
ANd whats up with beaches? It kinda bugs me that the whole world is one giant raised terrain.
End of Bobofett's quote
I didn't add it to my original post but adding beaches and rocks to shorelines would really help liven them up. Simple things, just sprinkle in some random beaches and rock formation out in the water, also icebergs at the poles. Hopefully I can mod this in as well.

Reply #9 Top


I have been playing with it quite alot and there are definetly some problems with the engine. For instance I switched dragons to spawn in mountains and the lair textures do not adjust to the height maps for the mountains. The movement animations do work, its easy to set the mountains to 128 move points (or something else extreme) and have land units move 1 square per turn through mountains and it scales the height map properly (no mountain movement even in civ has never made any sense to me at all).

 

 If you mess with raising the water height to get it matched to the land, to get rid of the weird every edge of the land meeting the sea looks like the cliffs of dover aesthetic, you get all sort of weird tearing/clipping and it messes up the river mouths. That is of course if it loads at all.

 

There are some definete concessions you have to think of before you embark down this road, any playing with height maps and mountains / water means your probably going to screw up all the land  / water effect spells (the tidal wave one).

 

As someone who did a good bit of time working on map scripts for civ 4 as well as pouring over the other modders scripts, like tectonics, I can tell you we are pretty much out of luck with making real "organic" looking maps, which is a crying shame. Sure we can hopefully mod in some interesting effects from the terrain, and maybe make a few cool stamps and adjust the generation to a certain degree but this engine was just not made to generate real geography its primary focus was supporting the cloth map.

 

Desert - You should last in desert for 2 turns unless you have water equipped in one of your three additional slots, water skins should be purchaseable in town, water degrades per turn in desert, if you run out of water you take a huge penalty to all stats and lose health every turn Maybe water spells that make water, highly fire / earth resistant monsters. etc. Random events like dust storm, mirage, etc that would effect a unit moving through desert.

 

Swamp - 1 square per turn no way to improve, mounts are auto dismounted. Unless your carrying herbs you have a chance to contract disease (malaria, dysentary). Water spells fairly useles, etc.

 

etc etc

 

I would love to be able to make a mod like this I have already started thinking about one and naming it "Ecomental" but I don't think the xml / events etc will allow me to do everything I would want. I am at a wait and see point at the moment.

 

 

 

 

Reply #10 Top

Quoting DsRaider, reply 9
I am also looking forward to making my own stamps and map types. I have already been experimenting with creating custom terrains but need the mod tools to proceed further. Hopefully if we don't get snow I can mod it in fairly easily, I am just worried about setting it to spawn at the poles. Should also be able to add ancient ruined city stamps.
End of DsRaider's quote

There is an arctic terrain already in, I used it in one of my stamps for rivermod. It is used in the northern waste wildland.

Reply #11 Top

Quoting Heavenfall, reply 11
There is an arctic terrain already in, I used it in one of my stamps for rivermod. It is used in the northern waste wildland.
End of Heavenfall's quote

Well ya I knew that I was just referring to it actually being used outside of that one wildlands. It seems like such a waste that they use it only there.

Quoting seanw3, reply 2
When modding is opened up, I hope to see some tutorials on how to make our own stamps and mod the vanilla ones.
End of seanw3's quote

Didn't they mention that you can save and create stamps right from the map editor?

Quoting Jam3, reply 10
As someone who did a good bit of time working on map scripts for civ 4 as well as pouring over the other modders scripts, like tectonics, I can tell you we are pretty much out of luck with making real "organic" looking maps, which is a crying shame. Sure we can hopefully mod in some interesting effects from the terrain, and maybe make a few cool stamps and adjust the generation to a certain degree but this engine was just not made to generate real geography its primary focus was supporting the cloth map.
End of Jam3's quote

You make a good point but still there is room for improvement, like the suggestions I made above.

Reply #12 Top

Great ideas! 

One more - forests should give significant bonuses to Tarth.

Hope it gets implemented, improvement in strategic depth is obvious  ^_^