[Balance] Reduce spell schools to 3 levels - Restricted champion levels to acquire.

from Elemental Forums

So while I find it neat that you can acquire a champion or design a sovereign with multiple spell schools, it is really only viable to ever level one of those schools. No longer are champions and sovereigns reaching upwards of level 20 or 30, in fact I was hard pressed after clearing the entire map almost soley with my sovereign to reach level 14.

Under the assumption that I wanted to level a mage type character it would be extremely unlikely to acquire even four levels of spells in two of those magic schools both due to the random chance of those options appearing and the restriction on character levels. Not to mention leveling up to those schools often provides very little benefit compared to the other available options (evocation or summoning for example). Leveling multiple spell schools is neither viable nor very rewarding for casters. For non caster ironically it works fine.

My suggestion is to reduce the choices to 3 levels of each school, making it much more likely (and worthwhile) to have multiple spell schools. At soveriegn creation you can only spend one point for first level, and that spell level will contain many (or all) of the spells available at 2nd. New spell levels (and maybe schools) do not begin showing up until 5th level and require 'path of the mage'. It might also be possible to limit the final spell level to 8th or 9th level of that character (Or some other unexplored restriction), so we don't have earth elementals rampaging at level 6.

3,989 views 11 replies
Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

tbh i dont like multi school champions

 

like you said its nearly impossible to level up all schools and tbh i like the sense of progression of having more than 3 steps to upgrade spells (i d love even more upgrade like the new summon trait )

 

anywyay i posted my ideas here:

 

https://forums.elementalgame.com/418250

 

Ashes of the Singularity II
Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top

I think instead of reducing the spell books it would be better to tie the character progression closer to the paths and make it less random.

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

Or they could put more xp so we can get more traits to choose, but the good ones would only appear at some levels, or with a branching tree.

Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top


See, I was hoping for some spells to actually RELY on multiple schools and/or shards of magic.  I thought it could serve as a counter-balance to those one school know-it-alls:

Entangling Forest (Life/Earth) Strategic: Defend your territory with thick murky forests that slow enemy movement to 1 sq/turn.  The number of earth and life shards determine how big your forest is.

Poison Cloud (Death/Water) Tactical: An 8x8 grid of the battlefield is enveloped in a noisome vapor; all units within take 6 +1 dmg for each Death\Water shard.   

Cleansing Breath (Life\Air) Tactical:  All negative effects (spell/poison/fear etc.) are dispelled from all allied units.  +1 HP restored for each Air/Life shard.

Lava Ring (Fire/Earth) Tactical: The caster creates a moat of magma around the unit(s) of their choice.  Size of the ring is dependent on number of Fire/Earth shards.  The more shards, the more units can be encircled.  Enemy units crossing the ring suffer 12 + 1 dmg for each Fire/Earth shard possessed.  Fire-based enemies are immune to this spell.

More quest based magic and techs would help ease the level-up restrictions as well, plus serve to make each game more unique.  I'm thinking along the lines of the first Diablo where random quests fleshed out the game so every game was at least a little different.  

 

 

 

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top

There actually are already spells that require two schools. Some of them are pretty amazing: Contagnation, Gentle Rain, Earth to mud (or whatever the equivalent name is), forced march. The trouble is that there are so few choices to go around at level up, trying to level multiple schools can seriously hurt your character development.

Perhaps just as importantly, in a huge fit of irony, many of these dual spells are just as effective in the hands of a non-spellcaster focused character. It would make significantly more sense if these spells were restricted to champions with path of the mage, had a level restriction, and did not consume as many level up choices. Really the only reason I can see for the 5 spell schools is to reduce the chances of a champion from getting master level spells too early in the game.

The difference isn't particulary game breaking either: 2 versus 4 level up choices. It just makes it a little more viable dabble in other spell schools. Given that actions in combat are a fixed commodity it won't necessarily make these champions any stronger, but increases the chances of obtaining dual-school spells. To prevent starting with contagnation the spell requirement could be either 2 air or 2 death and 1 of either air or death. Or if that is complicated to program, simply make dual cast spells require a fixed level in schools (1 air 2 death in this case).

Speaking of which, ceresa should really start with air and not fire, as her faction trait doesn't kick until she maxes out the death school otherwise.

Reply #7 from Elemental Forums Top

I don't really agree with this.  There's a whole lot of balance that needs to be done in the arena of character development (xp gain, traits, spells), and I don't think this would help immersion in the long run.  It would just make the magic system duller than it already is.

Reply #8 from Elemental Forums Top


How would any of this make the game more dull? You still gain the same spells, they are just organized differently. It actually opens more possibilities to create dual and tri spell school spells as it will be more viable to level multiple schools.

Reply #9 from Elemental Forums Top


I never realized that Gentle Rain is a multi-school spell!   Guess I should read the description more carefully. 

Definitely agree with the path of the mage limitation.  This way you can have heroes of might and magic... hmm that sounds familiar :-"

Seriously, your point about magic specialization is spot on and the Wisdom trait in HOMM3 is what it most reminds me of.  I think it was a great mechanic that could be used to let all champs do some limited low level magic and leave the whiz-bang stuff to the serious mages.

The basic, advanced and expert levels for each school of magic was a neat concept too that could also be Stolen er, implemented.

Maybe your spell can be basic, advanced or expert based on the number of shards you controlled as you mention above with contagion?

Reply #10 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting CdrRogdan, reply 8

How would any of this make the game more dull? You still gain the same spells, they are just organized differently. It actually opens more possibilities to create dual and tri spell school spells as it will be more viable to level multiple schools.
End of CdrRogdan's quote

Because by removing tiers you'd be reducing the need to specialize thus making the whole system more bland, because what you're really asking for is for every mage to be able to cast every spell.  The whole idea is that the character *should not* be both a multi-school master and a single-school master, which is what your proposed system would ultimately accomplish.  As a player i feel you should need to *choose* either mastery in one school, or multi-school mediocrity.  Every mage should not be able to cast every spell in the game. 

Now like I said, the entire system needs A LOT of balance at this point, so we'll see how that goes.  But I highly doubt changing the entire spell system would be considered at this stage of the game.

 

Reply #11 from Elemental Forums Top

Hmm. Yes, I think I can agree with combo spells being Path of the Mage only.