All good, can't wait to check it out. 

I think I might miss the totally OP archers, but even with random damage I think they'll still be strong.  Glad dragons and catapults and demons won't be scrunches together on one tile anymore.  They are plenty powerful as an individual unit.

As for randomly choosing who goes first, attacker or defender I might even take it further: on each individual attack I might randomly choose who gets the first swing in a melee fight, rather than attacker-then-counterattacter.  I also might tend to give the *defender* the first turn if they are garrisoned.  Just a thought, maybe something to test if there is a patch 1.095.  I know one day combat speed will determine that sort of thing so no biggie, obviously.

Also, I don't know if the developers play the empire side much--I kind of doubt you do because the marriage and victory screens etc. are the same for both sides and designed clearly in the kingdom style--but (on my Windows 7-64 machine) things are a lot less stable when playing an empire faction.  Just a heads up.  Hopefully patch 1.09 fixes that.

"In the longer term, we are moving to an initiative system (individual units moving based on their combat speed rather than each side taking a turn together)."

Sooooooo can not wait for this.

The short term change will spice things up as well. At the least, I'll have to make sure I have a significant advantage instead of being assured that I'll be able to whittle down the enemy before they even move. Maybe I can, maybe I can't.

I love Frogs! (1.09 - random 1st turn battles)

I like what I read in the release notes to version 1.09. I have an idea for a future update.

In combat, I have been in favor of a defnder getting the first shot ever since my first playing of Elemental. The idea of initiative is also a good choice. The random first shot is a start, as you mentioned. However, I have an added twist. It seems to me that a skill/talent of a Thief, Adventurer, or Assassin hero would be the sneak or surprise attack skill. That skill would grant any stack, that he is leading, an addition 75% increase in initiative the first few rounds or a 75% improved chance to gain the initiative for the first one or two rounds.

I know you've caught a lot of flack from early adopters. I for one, appreciate the chance to offer some constructive ideas, and look forward to an excellent game that will get better as it matures. It's kind of like good wine. It may not taste perfect when first put in the bottle. But with time it just gets better and better. If you don't take adequate care though, it can turn into vinegar.

Keep up the good work.

Yes once initiative is in you can have all sorts of talents, spells and technology to boost it.

• The starting side in a tactical battle is now chosen randomly. The attacker and the defender have an equal chance to go first. 

Well that's a step in the right direction!  Should make tactical combat more interesting in the short-term at least. 

Just curious, when are the other modding categories going to be enabled in the game for download?  I've heard no news about the progress for this for quite some time.

Thanks for the update! 

Cities report. Nice:) Nothing about specialists. Is the idea postponed/dropped?

Sounds like great work Frogboy, can't wait to try it out!

Win7 64 bit person here as well, I must say commendable effort on the leaks (wow, so many leaks, is it C++? . I won't also play until it's declared AI is considered fixed by the devs and the players - many other things to do. I will let the new, fixed version of Elemental surprise me... when it's ready.

One thing I would say is that initiative should not be based on movement/combat speed. ... Instead everyone should have an equal base initiative number...then the modifiers would be applied.  Those units that have the same initiative after the modifiers would randomly be chosen who goes first for them.  

Some thoughts on modifiers....

Archers and spearmen would get a bonus to initiative if on the defending army.

Calvary and catapults would get a bonus if on the attacking army.

and then of course.     

All langauges can have leaks, some just lull you into complacency by saying they have a "garbage collector" to take care of it.

Great news!

Things are coming into focus...

I am so happy to see you have decided to use (eventually) a unit based, rhater than a 'side' based movement order for tac battles.

Here are my suggestions for that system:

Tactical Battles

Current system uses the ‘combat speed’ of the unit to determine its APs allotment.  One side acts, then the other.  Repeat until only one side remains on tactical field.  Side that acts first has immense advantage.

First change:  Determine APs based on the unit’s movement. Higher movement = more APs.

Now use the units ‘combat speed’ and change it to ‘initiative.’  (Actually, can leave the ‘label’ alone if you want…just change its function to initiative in the tac screen)

Finally, change the combat acting queue to be unit specific, not ‘side’ specific.  Now assign every unit (of both sides) a place in the combat acting queue.  Ties are decided in favor of the unit currently having more APs. 

Each unit now is given commands when its ‘turn to act’ comes up in the combat acting queue.  When the last unit in the current queue ‘acts,’ the round is over.  All units (except those ‘frozen, etc.) are now assigned a fresh set of APs to use.  The number of APs is based on their respective current initiative.  The PC now assigns all units a place in the next ‘combat acting queue.  Rinse, repeat.

Initiative per unit – not side.  Action points refer to how much a unit can do (already in game).  Initiative refers to when it can expend its APs.

This, all by itself, would remove the horrible advantage given to whichever “side” ‘moves (uses all its action points) first. 

Definitions of words/concepts:

APs = action points. 

Act = unit uses its APs to move/attack/fortify/cast. (User may now give it commands)

Initiative = units current ‘combat speed’ (as in current code)

Round = completing one combat action queue.

Combat action queue = the order/ sequence in which each unit of either side is assigned to act. Each unit ‘acts when its turn comes up in the combat action queue.

Initiative = determines where in the ‘combat action queue’ each unit is placed: highest initiative first, lowest initiative last, etc. Ties in the sequence are resolved in favor of unit with more APs, and if APs are =, then a random roll.

Immediate commands: (unit expends its APs immediately)

Move, melee, volley, cast, fortify.

Next design steps:

ALL UNITS: Reduce the strength of units that have zero AP’s remaining.  (say 10%?)  Defenders should have an advantage, just not the all or nothing of the current system.

ARCHERS: Redesign archers so that as range increases, the attack strength of the volley decreases.

Create various types of bows with various strengths and ranges.  Give archers a sight range increase if on higher ground then their target.

CONDITIONAL COMMANDS:

“Round” refers to when all units, both sides have, as permitted by each unit’s initiative, either expend their APs obeying an immediate command or have been given conditional commands. 

Immediate commands: (expends units APs immediately)

Move, melee, volley, cast, fortify.  (Already in game)  

Conditional commands are assigned to units so that they don’t use their APs immediately.  The APs are stored in the unit (for the duration of current round) and used to act (implement/do) the conditional commands currently given the unit.  Unit waits and responds to actions of enemy units.  APs are not, however, accumulated from one round to the next.  Once the round is over (all units of all sides have acted), any unused APs are gone.  The unit used its time doing the conditional command.  It may have acted in response to enemy actions, or it may have waited for an opportunity that did not happen.

Suggested conditional commands: Once unit expends its APs, it will only defend.

Close and Melee = engage if enemy approaches within x (trigger) distance.  X is assigned per unit, 1,2,3,4, as part of conditional command.  When triggered, the unit immediately moves towards E and melee attacks.  ((so, some units with an enhanced ‘counterattck’ would just defend, while units with enhanced attack strength would move towards E and attempt to attack first.))

Volley engage = archers volley at E if it gets within x distance.  X may be assigned per unit, 1,2,3,4,5.

Counter volley = archers volley against archer unit that just attacked it.

MAGIC USERS: Redesign MU (magic users) so that as spell levels increase, so does the related casting times.   Also, the number of levels the caster is above the actual spell being cast reduces casting time of that spell.  The following is illustrative.  I really don’t know what percentages, etc. would be effective.  However, consider the pace of the battle given the above ‘round’ system…  Developers decide percentage, AP cost, etc… [or allow user to modify these in a game customize input page.]

Level 1 MU casts level 1 spell = uses 100% of base cast time.

Level 2 MU casts level 1 spell = uses   90% of base cast time.

Level 10 MU casts level 1 spell= use   10% of base cast time.

Level 10 MU casts level 5 spell= use   50% of base cast time.

Each 10% of MU time consumes an AP.  So, some spells take a long time to cast – perhaps the MU will stand and work on casting a powerful spell while the troops go through several rounds of movement.  Interesting?

So... while we're talking about 1.1; originally it was planned for September, but I know 1.08 and the subsequent hotfixes delayed the schedule at least a week. Is it still on target for early to mid October, or are we looking towards the end now?

Thanks.

That's nice. Late game city building and economy needs refinement. And the cities are developing linear. The global resources pool decides that always the first founded city will be the biggest in the end:/ I wonder what solution will it be. I hope it'll beat the Civ standards:D

The reason i don't want this and instead everyone has an equal base initiative(before modifiers) is because basing it off combat speed would make mounts and archers godlike.  They would always get to go first and get more attacks which would be devastating to balance.

Unless I am mistaken, 1.09 was always planned for September 30 and 1.1 was planned for an October release.

EDIT:  I not mistaken.  Verified the deleted post for post-release schedule.  Thank you Google.

Archers will always be godlike until they introduce distance (then they'll be demigodlike ) cavalry that depends, the supremacy so far goes to the unit that waits for the other (the AI) to advance, then strikes first. Moving first doesn't mean to strike first.

It all comes down to the rules.  Right now tac battles are so unbalanced because of the absence of rules.
Archers perfectly hit galloping riders at maximum range, cavalry is just an infantry unit with hooves... and that's barely scratching the surface.

"Sire, while exploring the lost tombs of the ancient Exalthian Empire, we came across a spell that would do damage of 'unimaginable' proportions. In fact, it seems that this spell was certainly responsible for the fall of that noble Empire. We managed to recover a partial record of the only time this spell seem to be cast. Here is what it says:"

(from a scrap of burned and bloodstained parchment) "...Foolish mortals, I am the greatest channeler that ever lived. I have discovered the final weapon that will bring down the Titans once and for all! Observe as I unlock the secrets of the Universe and divide them by zer-oh, SH-..." 

I like the work you did with the last patch, after you fix all this stuff, could you do like a keyboard shortcuts update thing.  Thanks

Multiplayer version of 1.09 not out yet?  Downloaded 1.09 but in game it tells me to click show pre-release versions in options.  I already have show pre-release selected, and multiplayer worked in 1.08 for me.