Shop depth

Idea:

I think it is extremely superficial to be able, once a tech is researched for example, to automatically purchase the same types of commodities throughout all cities in an Empire/Kingdom. More depth could be added by making shopping town specific. This would on the one hand force more adventure, as parties would be required to all go to a central location to purchase the best equipment and items, and on the other hand could easily be turned into another element of diplomacy. My thesis is that a city must follow a definitive path in its development of what specialty items it produces, and is unable to simply have for sale everything which technology at any point in time allows. This is not practical and takes away much needed realism and depth from Elemental

The first point is trivial. Most people should be able to see that this concept will make the world less 'small', i.e., give it a much more expansive feel and force players to make adequate supply decisions which are not currently available with the current one shop fits all approach. Whether this is a good or a bad thing is the question.

In regards to the second point, then, I believe that in order for this to be incorporated into the diplomatic game there must first exist a few conditions:

1) First, of course, town-specific shops. A general blacksmith leading to a choice between an armor-smith or weapon-smith within the city, for example, and with new technology then branching into an even more specialzed trade derived from the same path due to an extensive division of labor within the city. It is also possible somewhere along the line, most likely the civilization tree, to research a tech that may allow for two types of shop-paths to be followed in the city. However, I would encourage that there be put into place costs for doing this. The more market oriented a city becomes, the less of other general features it should have. This would have to be further discussed.

2) Second. Once the first concept is established, there would be a need for a greater diversity in shop types. I am talking about, for example, Jewelers, Tanners, Armorsmiths, Weaponsmiths, Magic shop, Clothiers, Herbalists, et.al.....These then branching into more technical specialties with a refined division of labor, such as the Jeweler then being able to be upgraded in either direction to specialize in rings, necklaces, etc., or the Weaponsmith turning into blades/blunt/piercing/ect. or the Magic Shop leading into Enchanted Items or Spell shops, or  whatever else have you.The possibilities are limited only by the imagination of the devs and the extent to which they want to itemize the world.

3) Third. Incorporate into the diplomatic core of the game an option or a feature, and perhaps the simple open borders agreement suffices, which determines whether or not foreign sovereigns and their populace are able to purchase goods at other Empire/Kingdom town shops. As production becomes more specialized and city specific, this opens up huge potential for the diplomatic option because not every Empire/Kingdom will possibly be able to self sufficiently produce the myriad items which a truly balanced army would need. For realism, if anyone cares about that, I would argue that the merchant/producers of the commodities of these shops, gold is gold. They care little if this gold is from foreigners or their sovereign.

4) Fourth. Limit the amount of specialized items that a shops within a city produces in a certain period of time, i.e., do not make items purchasable in infinite quantities. Make rarer items require special resources obtained through questing/notable locals - I would say through dungeon diving whenever/if ever that option becomes available. Make items require a certain production time as opposed to being instantly transferred to the player on exchange (I highly doubt that medieval merchants built huge stocks of inventory to meet unexpected waves of demand which they influenced through advertisement schemes). Perhaps harness the new dynamic created when open borders IMPLIES that other Kingdoms/Empires can shop at YOUR shops, and purchase items which YOU specialized, into some form of COST for maintaining open borders. As open borders stands now, it has very little costs/benefits associated with it.

5) Any other conditions you think I may have missed?

 

Ultimately, there may be added some type of intra-Kingdom or extra-Kingdom automatic exchange mechanism which allows for the distribution of items from one city to others. I believe that this possibility should be limited, however, and if implemented should come with a heavy fee. I believe this because the point of this concept is to create a sense of scarcity in the minds of players and in turn affect the general mechanics of the game-world. Whenever you do something, you do it with a definitive goal or end in mind. To do things which would work in the opposite direction at the same time is one, if not the, definition of madness.

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Reply #1 Top

To clarify, spells and their diversity could also be brought into this system to remedy the general consensus that it is far too easy for sovereigns to learn all spells at very little cost to other areas of development.

Reply #2 Top

The main problem is that currently, one of the only real advantages heroes have over regular units, is their ability to adapt relatively quick to the best gear that the technology can offer.

Forcing a hero (or worse, a group with heroes) to spend a lot of time between cities to restock, will take away this advantage.

 

It's a great idea, but I fear this can only be thought of after we see more significant advantages of heroes.

Reply #3 Top

You're basing this "loss of advantage" on the current balance of champions vs troops.

Since that is very much broken anyway, it's very likely to change... somehow, so I wouldn't base too many guesses on the current balance.

Reply #4 Top

Which is why I said the idea should be delayed to see what advantages the heroes get over units.

Since it's depth vs. complexity and loss of hero's advantages.

 

The complexity is also an issue.

With the current UI that gives you minimal information, it will be extremely annoying to memorize by heart what each city has, and where should you go to buy a specific item.

 

I do think it's a good idea, but not for now. This idea depends too much on fixing current UI and balance issues.

Reply #5 Top

I do not think this concept could be implemented as a modification to an already established game, however. The entire game mechanic would have to be built either around it or in conjunction with it. I was moreso putting forth the idea as something that could be done simultaneously with other fundamental changes.

Reply #6 Top

Whats broken is the connection as the leader of a Nation who has to go to some shop and pay outrages prices for simple stuff..   If I want a sword I should just be able to walk to the armory, and grab any damn sword I want...  It cost more to buy one short sword than it dose to make a 4 man squad equiped with said short swords and armor....     Is my sovereign a moron?  

The cost of an Item needs to be balanced more vs cost to field an Item for troups..    Now if It was an enchanted Short Sword Yes I can see paying that much for it...  But I would be better off trining one guy, and let him die, and then take the short sword from him... after all it only cost 12 gold to train him...  

Reply #7 Top

You know, the item shop, as is, is one of the things I like most in the game. I hope they don't change a thing. If they do change something, I hope it's not to pile another layer of complexity on top of it.

There's enough things going on already. The focus should be on refining those things, not adding more.

Reply #9 Top

Well, I completely disagree. This game has no complexity and depth; the vast majority of the arguments on these forums in one way or another touch upon its simplistic mechanics and cookie cutter decision making. It has a lot going on to be sure. The level on which these 'things' go on, however, is elementary at best.

 

As far as 'what should happen if I were a Sovereign'....this is no standard to base game mechanics on. There is no reason to believe that your interpretation of what a Sovereign 'would' do is the best to model the game after.