Why I can't build lodging camp? » Forum Post by webusver

I tend to agree that if a forest is part of a cities buildable border then you should be able to build a logging camp.

Successfully updated karma reason!

BlackSmokeDMax

Join Date 03/2006

+60

As of now this is working as designed. You can install the snaking mod to change this mechanic.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting Leo in WI,

reply 2

As of now this is working as designed. You can install the snaking mod to change this mechanic.

Strange... The Snaking mod should be part of the core game.

Successfully updated karma reason!

That's the way it was before, but then they introduced autoplacement of buildings (with a Manual Improvement Placement Advanced Option), and decided that it would be better not to favour those who did snaking (since the AI or players not using manual placement couldn't benefit from it). Basically, it's a design issue, and I don't think snaking will be coming back to the core game any time soon.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting StevenAus,

reply 4

That's the way it was before, but then they introduced autoplacement of buildings (with a Manual Improvement Placement Advanced Option), and decided that it would be better not to favour those who did snaking (since the AI or players not using manual placement couldn't benefit from it). Basically, it's a design issue, and I don't think snaking will be coming back to the core game any time soon.

I hope developers will teach AI to "snake". Or lodging camp should be available when part of forest gets into the zone of control.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Seems logical that if we don't want AI to "cheat" we should not "cheat" AI (yes, I know is not proper cheating, but doing something the AI does not know how to do is almost like cheating). Having said that, I hope the AI learns that technique soon

Successfully updated karma reason!

athelasloraiel

Join Date 12/2011

+10

besides that, even with snaking mod, there are reasons why and when you cant built it.

If another city is very close, and building it would get you closer, you cant build camp.

I had to destroy two buildings to reduce proximity, and succeeded afterwards (so at the time I had option to build it, but it was saying insufficient space).

Successfully updated karma reason!

Just download and install the Snaking Mod.

Problem fixed.

Also recommend the Bridge bulding mod.

parrotmath outdid himself. They REALLY complete the city building aspect of the game.

Successfully updated karma reason!

parrottmath

Join Date 03/2008

+206

Quoting GFireflyE,

reply 8

parrotmath outdid himself. They REALLY complete the city building aspect of the game

Thanks... I really enjoyed adding snaking back into the game, but they are not going to add that back in anytime soon. What they should add to the core game is the bridge (probably a better looking design by them), even if they don't add snaking for the bridge building it would provide an appropriate strategic element for the AI.

Successfully updated karma reason!

NorsemanViking

Join Date 03/2006

+19

Snaking has little or nothing to do with strategy and hard choices. I always play auto-placement of buildings, so the choices where to found my cities gets harder (drawback/benefit) and so that I'm not getting any gamey advantages over the AI. Game is better this way.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting NorsemanViking,

reply 10

Snaking has little or nothing to do with strategy and hard choices. I always play auto-placement of buildings, so the choices where to found my cities gets harder (drawback/benefit) and so that I'm not getting any gamey advantages over the AI. Game is better this way.

I disagree. Mainly because it's a hell of a lot less fun that way in my opinion. I recently added the snaking mod and I simply can't believe that that feature was removed at some point.

Successfully updated karma reason!

My thoughts on the subject (which may just be me parroting one of Frogboy's posts from a long, long time ago, I honestly don't remember):

A- It makes the choice of where to place a city more difficult, and therefore more meaningful. Next to a forest, or not?

B- It would be a lot of coding I imagine in order to make the AI do it intelligently.

I believe that the improvements that can be build on a river face the same issue, correct?

That said... I really missed it at first, but after getting used to it, I do kinda like the fact that it gives certain sites the advantage, makes city placement more important. Not everyone will agree with this, and I am glad there is a mod out for those who want to have it in the game... but it will give you an unfair advantage over the AI, so you know (unless the mod also makes the AI do it intelligently?).

Successfully updated karma reason!

parrottmath

Join Date 03/2008

+206

Quoting Markon,

reply 12

(unless the mod also makes the AI do it intelligently?).

The mod does not have this ability. But then again if somebody is playing with just automatic building placement the mod doesn't give the player any significant advantage over the AI in that regard.

The problem arrises when manual placement is on and in that regard the player will always have the advantage even without the ability to snake your city.

The other game mechanic being manipulated with manual placement is the instant highway that the cities provide. That mechanic, I'm sure, has been a thorn in the elemental game as there is no good way of removing that mechanic without an overhaul of the system, which would drastically change the game itself. So in essence if you want no building advantage over the AI, then turn off manual building placement (i.e. keep the default setting).

This has all been argued thoroughly before and with the snaking mod it allows people to focus on the more important aspects of the game and they can choose for themselves whether they want snaking or not.

Successfully updated karma reason!

When I last looked at it, the AI was building cities as if they had access to snaking towards forests and rivers, and than getting snubbed when they built towards and found out the hard way that it's been coded out of the game.

Implementing snaking makes the AI smarter, imo.

Successfully updated karma reason!

coyote303

Join Date 03/2008

+7

Quoting NorsemanViking,

reply 10

Snaking has little or nothing to do with strategy and hard choices. I always play auto-placement of buildings, so the choices where to found my cities gets harder (drawback/benefit) and so that I'm not getting any gamey advantages over the AI. Game is better this way.

+1

Successfully updated karma reason!

Beware of a bug when snaking btw, sometimes you hit the left mouse button and accidentally autoplace the logging camp. If you cancel that building of the camp, you wil never get to build the logging camp again. It disappears from the queue.

Successfully updated karma reason!

BlackSmokeDMax

Join Date 03/2006

+60

Quoting Mhantra,

reply 16

Beware of a bug when snaking btw, sometimes you hit the left mouse button and accidentally autoplace the logging camp. If you cancel that building of the camp, you wil never get to build the logging camp again. It disappears from the queue.

True, unless you have another forest square within range to build on. But you are correct it does clear out that forest tile immediately when placing it, and if you cancel you can not place on that same square (any of the four sub-squares of that square.)

Successfully updated karma reason!