[Idea] Last Chance Content

By on August 24, 2012 2:18:45 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

seanw3

Join Date 12/2007
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This is my response to the recent Dev Journal post about feedback. Knowing that this is the last chance before feature lockdown, I want to give a full measure of suggestions. Now, usually I have a rule about telling devs to just implement stuff that I mod into the game, but there are some key problems with city specialization and monster lairs. I will try to put my ideas in the categories Frogboy gave me.

 

(3) Magic:

Entangling Forest (Life/Earth) Strategic: Defend your territory with thick murky forests that slow enemy movement to 1 sq/turn.  The number of earth and life shards determine how big your forest is.

Poison Cloud (Death/Water) Tactical: An 8x8 grid of the battlefield is enveloped in a noisome vapor; all units within take 6 +1 dmg for each Death\Water shard.   

Cleansing Breath (Life\Air) Tactical:  All negative effects (spell/poison/fear etc.) are dispelled from all allied units.  +1 HP restored for each Air/Life shard.

Lava Ring (Fire/Earth) Tactical: The caster creates a moat of magma around the unit(s) of their choice.  Size of the ring is dependent on number of Fire/Earth shards.  The more shards, the more units can be encircled.  Enemy units crossing the ring suffer 12 + 1 dmg for each Fire/Earth shard possessed.  Fire-based enemies are immune to this spell.

Ghastly Shadows: All units on the battlefield are afflicted with fear unless they resist. Any unit that resists takes 6+3 per Deathshard in pierce damage.

Encumber: Unit gains +40 weight and all the penalties thereof.

Mass Encumber: All units on the battlefield gain +40 weight and all the penalties thereof.

Feather: Unit gains -40 Weight and all the benefits thereof.

Feather Aura: All units gain -40 weight and all the benefits thereof.

Call Death: Unit loses 100% Hp unless they resist. (Make this Death V and caster level 15)

Holy Aura: All friendly units gain +30 Spell resistance. (Life V)

Bless: Unit gains +5 Dodge, +10 Max Hp, +10 Accuracy.

Mass Bless: All friendly Units gain +5 Dodge, +10 Max Hp, +10 Accuracy.

Hallucinations: Unit gain -40% Accuracy, has a 40% chance to strike friendly targets, and has a 30% chance to lose turn unless they resist.

Mass Hallucinations: All units are affected by Hallucinations unless they resist.

Hysteria: Unit has a 100% chance to strike a random target and a 20% chance to do damage to himself for 5 turns unless they resist.

Mass Hysteria: All units are affected by Hysteria unless they resist.

Possession: Unit gains +50% damage, but is made vulnerable to magic and lightning damage.

Mass Berserk: All friendly units are affected by Berserk.

Deadly Aura: All friendly units gain +6 to Crit chance and +50% to crit damage. (Air+Earth)

Barkskin: +3 Armor +3 per Earthshard, -50% resistance to fire.

Fearful Flee: Enemy unit saves versus being removed from battle.

Dreadful Prayer: Caster loses all Spell Resistance, as do all enemy units unless they resist for 3 rounds. 

Voidspell: All units on the battlefield are immune to magic.

Uplifting Prayer: All friendly units gain +10 Spell Resistance, +3 Regeneration for 3 rounds.

Gale Thrust: Pushes a singly unit back 2 tiles and knocks them prone unless they resist. If knocked prone, does 6 Damage (+4 per Airshard). 

Dagger of the Mind: Causes unit to lose mind, skipping their turn until a successful save is made. On each lost turn, 3 Initiative is also lost until the end of the battle. (Star Trek reference implied)

Summons in general need 4 levels of quality instead of a static spell. Lesser, Greater, Dire and the standard summons would add a good level of depth to what we can do without calling for more art. Giving the player some summons at level 2 in each book is a must, except for fire which is already OP. I would like to see each better quality summons get larger by increasing the scale. They should each have better stats, which you would do using the spawn rating.

There are alot more spells to be made just as easy as I did. The trick to an interesting spell is one that has a drawback or lends to a particular strategy. They need to rely on high magic power so that it is only worth casting if you are higher level than your enemies. I also would like to seem some more that do one thing unless they resist, in which case a different, but still detrimental thing happens. This is great for high level spells. There is a lack of spells that target enemies and friends, which is the best way to add diversity to spells. Feather Aura is a great example of that. Maybe making the whole battlefield resistant to cold and weak to fire would be a good one to add. Those kinds of spells are especially cool when the player designs his units to be highly resistant to magic. It totally changes the tactics you can use. And things like Hysteria are just fun to use Add some groovy special effects to garner sales from all those damn hippies.

 

(4) What sorts of additional quests would you like to see?

I would like to see quests that add lots of monsters to the strategic map. Doing something foolish in the quest should add a whole swath of baddies to the game. Later quests can even add massive armies of humans all over the map.

More humans and fallen. There should be more quests where we happen upon other cites that are neutral. And then end up slaughtering or saving them.

Some proper dragonslaying adventures. And I want a special sword to make it easier.

 

(5) Random events – yes, we have them but we don’t have a lot. Now is the time to suggest them.  Ideally, ones that don’t require crazy amounts of work.

Ice Age: Several locations become snow terrain and arctic monster lairs spawn.

Lost Isle: A ancient island long lost to history rises from the ocean.

World Breaker: Several areas of flat  terrain becomes mountains and other mountains become flat terrain. Earth Elementals and Rock Spiders rise from the depth of the earth and random improvements are destroyed in all cities.

Woken Dragon: A Cumbercoil dragon spawns and wanders the world.

Treasures of Heaven: A comet crashes to the earth. Be the first to the crater in order to secure it for yourself. 

Age of Fangs: A powerful Beast Lord spawns. Tougher and tougher beasts spawn everywhere until he is destroyed.

Father of Storms: A powerful hurricane ravages the world. All units take 50% damage and are randomly teleported within 15 squares. Air elementals spawn around the world.

Drought: Food production is reduced by 25% for 50 turns. Random areas turn to desert.

Flood: Production is reduced by 25% for 50 turns. Random areas turn to swamp.

Crystal Shift: All shard resources are destroyed. An equal number of new shards spawn around the map randomly.

Shards of Avarice: Each Sovereign is granted a Shard of Avarice. If a sovereign is defeated in combat the winner gets the shard. The first person to get over half the shards wins.

Gold/Crystal/Metal Rush: Several mines spawn across the map. +25% to X resource production.

Tidal Surge: All units within 4 tiles of water take dmg. Water elementals spawn along shores.

Muddied roads: No bonus to movement on roads.

Unnatural Fog: Vision is reduced by 1.

Forest Fires: Random Forests are destroyed. Makes wolves go on the rampage.

Invaders from the West: A invading army spawns by the ocean tile and rampages.

In general we need to be able to spawn goodiehuts from random events. This is currently bugged or not intended to happen. Increasing the ways a quest can be triggered and what it can trigger is really important for great random events. If every .1% storehouse that was built started a global event of a food surplus it would feel more connected to the game. If casting a Shadowgate could have a .1% chance to rip a rift in the fabric of the realm, that would be the dictionary's definition of the word epic. There are so many of these I would like to see, but require some coding or at least troubleshooting to be a reality.


(6) I will be needing your help on strategy for the AI. 

Already on it. Watching my Let's Play videos is the best way to learn my strategies. I will begin doing all the factions so you have some good variety on tactics.


(11) I can’t tell you who the Fallen Enchantress is. But you can probably guess.

We all know it is Lord Markin. 

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August 24, 2012 3:06:28 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Now that the things you asked for are in the OP, I can talk about some modding success that I think would do well in the core design.

 

This is my basic city balance mod:

Conclave Level 2-5: +3 Research, +1 Essence, +25% Research, +10% Research in all cities

Archivist: +50% Research
Oracle: +100% Mana
Scroll Scribe: +20 Spell Resistance

Crystal Vault: -50% Crystal Cost For Trained Units
Academy: +5 Research
Tower Of The Magi: +3 Levels to Summons

Pyre of Anniellum: +1 Fire Power, +1 Fire Attack, +20% Fire Resistance
Hedigah Bathhouse: +1 Water Power, +1 Frost Attack, +20% Frost Resistance
Tenfell University: +1 Air Power, +1 Earth Power

Town Level 2-5: +1 Materials, +2 PPM (Production Per Materials), +20% Gildar, +2% Taxes,

Guild Grocer: +1Hp per Grain
Wharehouse: +50% Growth, -10% Unrest
Farmers Market: +1 Gildar Per Grain

Slums +25% Food, +2 Growth
Almshouse: +2 Influence, +2 Prestige
Hall of Defense: +10 Defense when defending

Guild Lendinghouse: +15 Food per Grain in all cities
Guild Tribunal: +2Hp per Grain for trained units
Mint of Ruvenna: +3 Gildar per Material

Fortress Level 2-5: +1 Level +1 Level, +1 Level, +2 Levels

Gallows: +20% Production
Drillmaster: +1 Moves
Watchtower: +2 Initiative

Strike Garrison: Impulsive
Prison: -10 Unrest in all cities
Mining Guild: +25% Metal per season.

Onyx Throne: -30% Wage costs
Underforge: -50% labor and metal costs for units
Great Arena: +3 Attack and Defense

 

As you can see, I replaced the standard bonuses. This might seem OP, but I also reduced the cityhub bonus to research. It is now +1 research per level. You still get some research from good cities, but not the majority of it. The Conclave has been empowered to give out the amount of research you would see normally from the cityhub. It does this with a larger variety of mechanics to keep the balance throughout the game. Too many percent bonuses early on will make the scale in the later game ridiculous. I tried to make sure you are losing 2 very good things for each choice you make. 

The basic structure is that each level gives you one standard bonus and one choice bonus. So an Oracle is +100% Mana and +1 Essence. And Archivist is +50% Research and +1 Essence. There were alot of choices that weren't really choices in the last build. +1 Essence is the only thing I will ever choose. It should just be included in the balance that you get +1 Essence in Conclaves at level 3. 

The level 2 choice is meant to be a general specialization. In the last build we got some specialization here, but most of it came from the buildings you unlock with your choice. Very little came from the levelup choices. In this design you get a more immediate specialization into the category you are signing  up for. Conclaves offer +3 research, which is huge and useful. Towns give you +1 Materials, which will help them get some good infrastructure. Fortresses were actually already great at level 2. Each choice you make here is a broad one. There are still many ways to specialize within the options of each of the three basic choices.

The level 3 choices really start to define the strategy you are using for a given city. Yes you are a Conclave, but is that a magic, research, or training Conclave. What type of units do you want to focus on in your Fortress? Do you want to focus on fast growth or money in that Town? The choices are designed to make the player look at the overall potential of the town. Level 5 cities are great, but not every city can get there. Some may get there, but only after the endgame farming techs. Others are going to get there tomorrow if you just choose a good growth strategy.

Level 4 choices are where you really get an economic payoff. Trained units start to get deadly. Money starts to flow like water. Tech rushing starts to get really strong. The level of specialization at this point is precise. I also made it so that Conclaves get slightly less out of level 4, given their +1 Essence in level 3. In kind, their level 5 bonus are once again awesome. There needs to be level quality trade offs like this to add quality factors to specialization choices. 

Level 5 choices center on rewarding the player for doing so well. The choices don't just help the city, but affect the whole of your nation. Each one adds a bonus that helps shape your overall strategy. Some of them may be too powerful to stack, so I am thinking they should be one per faction. Maybe two should be one per faction and one should be stackable? Obviously -30% wages would get out of hand with 3 of them.

 

The current system is a huge step forward. I can live with it, but I think you will agree that some of this stuff is really great. The variation in bonuses adds alot more thought to the leveling system, yet can be ignored completely by the casual player without any huge detriments. The biggest thing I had to change was adding in GoldperPopulation to have level 5 cities get a city only tax boost. Everything else was already possible. You will note that I left out any when idle options as this does not scale well in different game types and is generally bad for city levels. I left it in the building options though. I also removed the +1% interest as it is just too evil except as a world wonder. That is pretty much infinite money.

 

The things I changed to better accommodate this system?

-Mason was increased to 15% building discount; Mill to 30%.

-Black Market was added to Banditry (new name for shortbow tech).

-Adventurers Guild adds 1XP per season.

-Ancient Temple is +5 Mana

-Arena is 1XP per season

-Aforementioned nerf to cityhub2-5

-Ereog's Tower costs 400 Labor

-Festival is 1.5 Growth, +2 when idle.

-Sacrificial Altar is now +4Hp, +1 Attack

-Lumber Yard is +4PPM, Timber Mill is +6PPM with some extra labor costs.

Not too many changes here. I really like the new city buildings.

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August 24, 2012 3:26:04 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Oh, and I also nerfed all growth bonuses you can get. 

-Outpost Consulates give +.25 Growth

-Call of Sov spell not +.5 Growth per Essence.

 

It is odd that growth is more accessible from a spell and an outpost than from Towns. Nerfing the outside growth factors makes Towns much more important. 

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August 24, 2012 3:33:54 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I think you mean "now" rather than "not".

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August 24, 2012 3:54:04 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

There are alot of changes, but the idea is to get away from meaningless city level options. Adding research to all cityhubs makes me sad. I am hoping that much of what we got in .95 is going to get expounded upon in the next updates. Alot of the level choices and the cityhub thing look like placeholders for better content.

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August 24, 2012 6:13:38 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums
I really like your ideas for making the city specialization have a greater impact with more meaningful level-ups. I hope the devs are not daunted by the length of your post! Also, random events need to have a greater chance of occurring. In all my games, I've never even seen a single random event.
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August 24, 2012 4:01:02 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Wow.  This.  Totally this.  I would like to throw my support in as well.  My frustrations over the current magic spells are answered here plus so much more.  I completely agree with your suggestions.  
 

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August 24, 2012 4:19:20 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Excellent suggestions.

 

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August 24, 2012 5:58:42 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I love your ideas.  +1 from me.

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August 24, 2012 7:43:23 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I now demand there be a spell in the game called "Dagger of the Mind".  I don't even care what it does.  It could scald the rooves of their mouths with coffee that is too hot for all I care.   Or administer an ice cream headache.

 

Possibly it forces them to read 50 Shades of Grey.

 

(Great list, with a lot of good spell ideas.)

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August 24, 2012 8:40:59 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I really like your spell suggestions.

Your suggestions for random events are good but at game creation players should be given the ability to have them or not. If they choose to have them they should then choose the likely hood that random events could occur in the game and the maximum number of random events that could occur in the game.

Above all else I really like your suggestions where city level up is concerned.

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August 25, 2012 7:52:48 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

More Spells I just thought of:

Earth Element Infusion: +50% Defense, Gains Earthquake as an ability (which requires no mana, but has a cooldown), +3 levels to summons.

Air Element Infusion: +5 Initiative, +1 Moves, +50% Lightning Resistance.

Water Element Infusion: +50% Cold Resistance, +25% Damage to water spells.

Fire Element Infusion: +50% Fire Resistance, +25% damage to fire spells.

With a cost of 400 or so Mana and a level 4 spellbook prereq, this would be a welcome addition to the current life and death permanent buffs.

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August 25, 2012 8:04:35 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I'm on board with your city changes, Sean.  They have, for a lack of a better word, a focus to development that really makes any particular path more sensible.  Not that I have any strong objection to the changes implemented in this beta--far from it.  I just think you've moved things forward a very good step.

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August 25, 2012 8:38:27 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I am happy people seem to think these ideas are of merit. In my testing I came across some imbalances that I would like to correct:

Conclave Level 2-5: +3 Research, +1 Essence, +25% Mana, +10% Research in all cities

Archivist: +25% Research
Oracle: +50% Mana
Scroll Scribe: +20 Spell Resistance

Crystal Vault: -50% Crystal Cost For Trained Units
Academy: +5 Research
Tower Of The Magi: +3 Levels to Summons

Pyre of Anniellum: +1 Fire Power, +1 Fire Attack, +20% Fire Resistance
Hedigah Bathhouse: +1 Water Power, +1 Frost Attack, +20% Frost Resistance
Tenfell University: +1 Air Power, +1 Earth Power

Town Level 2-5: +1 Materials, +2 PPM, +10% Gildar, +1% Taxes,

Guild Grocer: +1Hp per Grain
Wharehouse: +50% Growth
Farmers Market: +1 Gildar Per Grain

Slums +25% Food, +2 Growth
Almshouse: +2 Influence, +2 Prestige
Hall of Defense: +10 Defense when defending

Guild Lendinghouse: +15 Food per Grain in all cities
Guild Tribunal: +1Hp per Grain
Mint of Ruvenna: +3 Gildar per Material

Fortress Level 2-5: +1 Level +1 Level, +1 Level, +2 Levels

Gallows: +25% Production
Drillmaster: +1 Moves
Watchtower: +3 Initiative

Strike Garrison: Impulsive
Prison: -10% Unrest in all cities
Mining Guild: +50% Metal per season.

Onyx Throne: -30% Wage costs
Underforge: -50% labor and metal costs for units
Great Arena: +3 Attack and Defense

 

That is a much more balanced progression. I noticed Conclaves were doing too much research and not enough mana. Guild Grocer is also broken in the vanilla so I had to fix that. Towns were doing too much gildar with +2% Taxes. I forgot that you can go far above 800 population. Fortresses actually needed some slight buffs as I noticed that Towns are hard to compete with when they focus on tank training. Can you imagine if Towns could also do great amounts of research? Oh wait... 

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August 25, 2012 10:27:29 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I'm really looking forward to Seanw3's content mods.

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August 26, 2012 12:29:35 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I vote for Stardock to use Sean's suggestions, and the more balanced level up, and hub bonuses in Reply 14!

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August 26, 2012 3:27:21 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I think your spell and city specialization suggestions are great. Additional suggestions:

 

Warlock: + 50 % spell damage -> + 1 additional fire, water, earth, air, life and death shard

Path of the Mage: - 25 % tactical spell cost and + 50 % damage -> - 25 % tactical spell cost and + 1 additional fire, water, earth, air, life and death shard

Coup de Grace: New assassin trait -> Activate the trait to increase the melee damage by 25 % and stun the opponent for 1 turn, Opponents HP must be 50 % or lower, 2 turns cooldown

Rain of Arrows: New assassin trait -> Actiivate the trait to attack all opponents within 1 tile radius of the target tile with a bow, 2 turns cooldown

Staffs: Accuracy to attack and Dodge to defend against the attack -> Spell Mastery to attack and Spell Resistance to defend against the attack

Pioneers should have an upkeep of roughly 10 gildar to reduce the spam

Create (element) shard: This level 3 strategic spell should be avaible in every school. The player can cast it on a shard within his zone of control to create a (element) shard.

Dispel magic: This tactical spell should be in the magic tech tree and it should remove a random enhancement on the target unit.

Mass slow: This level 4 tactical water spell should work like Slow, but it should target every enemy unit.

Mass haste: This level 4 tactical air spell should work like Haste, but it should target every friendly unit.

Mass heal: This level 4 tactical life spell should work like Heal, but it should target every friendly unit.

Mana explosion: This level 4 tactical fire spell should inflict 10 fire damage + 3 fire damage per shard against a target with an enhancement. The damage is multiplied with the number of enhancements on the target and halved if the target resists.

Summon Artifact: This strategic spell should be avaible in the magic tech tree. The player selects a magic item and the item is summoned into the casters inventory. The mana cost should be roughly the same as the buying price.

Summon Metal (Altar, Gilden, Kraxis, Tarth and Yithril): This strategic spell should be avaible in the magic tech tree. The caster summons 10 units of metal. The mana cost should be roughly 150.

Summon Crystal (Magnar, Resoln and Pariden): This strategic spell should be avaible in the magic tech tree. The caster summons 10 units of crystal. The mana cost should be roughly 150.

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August 26, 2012 5:00:26 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Wizard1200,
Summon Artifact: This strategic spell should be avaible in the magic tech tree. The player selects a magic item and the item is summoned into the casters inventory. The mana cost should be roughly the same as the buying price.

Summon Metal (Altar, Gilden, Kraxis, Tarth and Yithril): This strategic spell should be avaible in the magic tech tree. The caster summons 10 units of metal. The mana cost should be roughly 150.

Summon Crystal (Magnar, Resoln and Pariden): This strategic spell should be avaible in the magic tech tree. The caster summons 10 units of crystal. The mana cost should be roughly 150.

 

These are cool ideas and kinda obvious when you think about it!

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August 27, 2012 5:57:52 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Hey Seanw, I am happy to see your list, seems to contain a lot of good information (didn't go into details). I especially liked that you returned city level-ups to be of some use.

A couple of additions to your list:

1) Resoln and Tarth are missing a racial, unique ability. I believe that Tarth could get the Master Scouts into their racial strength, and Resoln Binding. I also believe that shard level two and three should spawn bigger elementals from binding.

2) More with higher impact racial strengths. Currently some of them are simply better then the others. For example, civics and warriors give a tech with no bonus, while adepts give a bonus mana and scholars give a game-long buff (+10% research).

Changing these strengths to unlock a later tech could make them stronger, for example Warriors could let you start with Weaponery, and unlock leather scrap armor (half armor and half production costs) giving the race a strong starting army.

Adepts could give a small amount of mana depending on your population. Say, 1 mana per 200 people in the empire.

Civics could start with both civics and mining, giving you a production headstart.

Currently some of the choices in making custom races are no-brainers, with a few good choices (such as Master Scouts which is awesome), while we should be considering every choice as an overpowered one.

3) Additional items to start with, as well as inner balance. Currently sword is by far the strongest, none-pick weapon when creating a sovereign. More items should be introduced, or at-least balanced.

4) More of a balance issue, but let the pre-made factions (procipinee, verga and the rest) use all of their picks, currently the sovs are using only 5 out of 6 picks (due to sov specialization no longer requiring a pick point). Also, a bug is that Lady Irene seem to start with the wrong bow.

 

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August 27, 2012 12:36:09 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I am actually looking at increasing the starting Sov power right now. The current dev's plan is to make the early game have much weaker enemies near the starting position, which are well balanced with the rusty swords and crude bows we are given for free. I would much rather just give them any weapon from Weapons for free. Then have a few powerful weapons and strong armor pieces with a cost of 1. It's fine to start out small, but if we are trying to play a powerful warrior Sov, it should be possible to do this for a cost from turn one. I also think the current monster difficulty outside of the starting zones is too inconsistent. It's either a big dragon or one army of easy mites. No rhyme or reason, just map generation. I am more in favor powerful starting Sovs and some larger roving bands of bandits and darklings. To compensate for this and to make Sovs stand out from normal heroes, I am making some of those starting traits much more powerful. 

 

As far as changing around which bonuses come from where, you seem to have a good logic behind it. I don't think the devs are thinking in terms of custom factions as much as balancing the main factions. Still, I think there was a few posts about that sort of change a few weeks ago.

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August 27, 2012 1:00:26 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Hm like these posts in here, also Sean explaining some stuff that helps me understand his changes I saw in his lets play .

Hope to see how this ends, I do agree sovereign should start slightly higher, low-end monsters should be slightly tougher, etc.

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

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