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Col_Firefly
Col_Firefly
Join Date 08/2007
+2

[Feedback] Weapons and stat multipliers

February 20, 2012 1:07:53 AM from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Hi guys,

 

.77 is definitely going in the right direction.

 

One place it hasn't improved on compared to its predecessor is damage values (Attack stat).

 

Flat attack values undervalue the stat gains of troops and heroes.  Basically if you get no STR, you're gimped in damage.

 

What I propose is a small flat bonus, plus a small bonus multiplier based on the stats of the unit.  THIS SHOULD NOT be solely based on Strength.

 

For example, Daggers get a flat value (say 3) plus a fairly large DEX multiplier.  This is to reflect that daggers mainly do their damage from where you stick it, not how hard you stick it in.  

 

Swords should get a STR and DEX multiplier, Axes and Hammers straight STR.  Spears and poles more DEX than STR.

 

Also, bows should get a small multiplier increase too (DEX/STR).

 

Finally, magic staves should get an INT/STR multiplier.

 

This should make the numbers easier to tweak, as we can see about what values for stats everyone will have.  It'll also make the races more distinctive, as players will play to their races' natural strengths for the most part.

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Col_Firefly
Lord Reliant
Join Date 03/2006
+39
Reply #1 February 20, 2012 7:59:36 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

You're certainly not alone in this sentiment. Strength in .77 is a bit too...strong. I don't recall reading about whether other attributes will be used for bonuses in the future, but hopefully that's the case, especially with magical or dexterous items (bows, daggers, etc.). Not all battles are about who has the biggest muscles, eh?

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Col_Firefly
seanw3
Join Date 12/2007
+141
Reply #2 February 20, 2012 11:20:40 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

If you get no more replies it is because we all agree with you, but have nothing to add. Expect a damage mod if for some reason the devs overlook this. 

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Col_Firefly
Kaesho
Join Date 05/2010
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Reply #3 February 20, 2012 11:39:22 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting ,
quoting post

where you stick it, not how hard you stick it in.

 

Jokes aside, I agree wholeheartedly with this change.

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Col_Firefly
legaceez
Join Date 09/2006
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Reply #4 February 20, 2012 12:03:42 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

While this makes sense in theory the reason it isn't really implemented in most games is it makes things unecessarily complicated and ultimately more difficult to balance things. The reasoning behind these classifications just don't translate well to a video game.

Easiest way to do this would be to just have three classes of weapons. STR, DEX, and INT weapons. Depending on which category the weapon falls in it gets a bonus from it's governing stat.

STR would be basically all melee weapons except daggers, DEX for daggers and bows/crossbows, and INT for wands/staves.

 

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Col_Firefly
seanw3
Join Date 12/2007
+141
Reply #5 February 20, 2012 12:23:40 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

The balance Kael seems to be going for is one where strength based weapons damage differently than dexterity based weapons. Ranged weapons should be using dexterity damage, they just shouldn't be getting the same amount of damage as melee weapons. There are two ways to do good damage, high attack and critical hits. Attack is based on strength and crits are based on dexterity. The problem is that trained units can never crit and thus any bow has extremely limited effectiveness in their hands. If the devs are not willing to have a more nuanced damage system, simply reducing the strength penalty for archers from -100% to -50% would solve many problems. It would however reinforce the idea that Strength is the only important stat in the game.

I would let dexterity decide attack damage but at a -75% rate of melee and strength. Then I would allow trained units to crit and start making some traits for them that  improve their ability to do so. I would also add the Crude Bow to the basic weapons tech so that we don't have to wait until Act II to train an archer. 

Why would intelligence improve the attack damage of a staff?

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Col_Firefly
Kaesho
Join Date 05/2010
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Reply #6 February 20, 2012 12:38:58 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting seanw3,
reply 5
Why would intelligence improve the attack damage of a staff?

If they make staves do magic damage instead of their current one (blunt I think?) it could work.

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Col_Firefly
seanw3
Join Date 12/2007
+141
Reply #7 February 20, 2012 1:15:53 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Staves are way underpowered at the moment. I would rather intelligence boost magical damage over unit level as many of them currently use. But non-magical staves are far too weak as well. The War Staff has no difference from the basic Staff. It would make sense to have staves offer limited armor and some dodge for the War Staff. Otherwise it is just going to be another unused weapon at the beginning of the game. 

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Col_Firefly
Lord Reliant
Join Date 03/2006
+39
Reply #8 February 21, 2012 7:58:53 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I'm hoping weapons generally get some balance and added flair. There are way too many poor/mediocre weapons. While there are some distinguishing traits between items (spear ignores defense, maul is heavily strength-based, daggers are fast), I've ended up with a slew of crappy weapons instead of a variety of good ones. I'd be surprised if this wasn't addressed, though, and other than some potential game mechanic changes, like allowing staves to use Intelligence, it should be an easy .xml change.

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Col_Firefly
Sythion
Join Date 07/2008
+17
Reply #9 February 21, 2012 10:47:07 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums


Dark Souls has the best system for this ever created, in my opinion. The scaling of each individual item would vary. One bow might be great for a character with super high dex, but another character might choose to have a bow with high base damage and no scaling at all. Not sure if we want something that in depth, but man is it fun making characters with this system

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