[Suggestion] Champion number imbalance

By on February 9, 2012 5:34:56 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums


Join Date 05/2006

One of the big problems with champions in the numbers are so variable. If I start in an area and have one poor quality champion I can recruit, things may be a bit difficult to start with, Alternatively if I have 5 I can recruit from the get-go, I'm going to have a fairly easy time of things in the beginning, and an even easier time later on.

So the following could be enacted to counter these concerns. Two changes:


1. Change champions so they are NOT NPCs standing around the area to be attacked. Instead there are a limited number of Champion-Huts that exist. Entering them with a Sovereign or Champion gives the option of recruiting a truly exceptional champion. These guys are pretty impressive, but to even recruit them requires researching into the recruitment tree.


2. Add a side-branch to the champion recruitment/quest enabling research tree. This tree activates a champion-slot. You begin with a single champion slot, and can gain more through research, up to a maximum (that can be breached through high level repeatable research, but a baseline number of slots are available through the normal research tree). Upon gaining a champion slot a number of random champions are offered to you in the same way as leveling up a character or city offers a random selection of advances. Most champions are common rarity, but some exceptional champions are uncommon or rare.


The effect of these changes are two-fold. It reduces the number of champions to a managable level by linking it to a measurable advancement, the research tree. Instead of being an action with low cost and minimum speed (some gold = instant powerful warrior), it requires investment in research to gain more than a couple of champions. The randomness of the champions is preserved by being a 'choose through a window' option, as well as some exceptional champions being available through champion huts, but even these world-based champions require some investment and can't just be picked up for a few bob and a pickled egg.

As well as that, it reduces the problems of having someone start surrounded by the opposite faction's champions. Champion huts are for both factions, and can be used by either side while offering faction-appropriate champions.

This opens up other civilisation/sovereign creation possibilities. Perhaps the Warlord Sovereign starts with a bonus champion-slot rather than gaining XP from his champions, or a civilisation can start with a bonus to the level of recruited champions.

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February 9, 2012 5:43:22 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Excellent ideas.

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February 9, 2012 7:45:32 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Agreed!  Good ideas...

Can we please also have champs as quest bringers or liberated prisoners who pledge service once we clear a monster lair? 

It would be great if a recently recruited champ came to you and offered a quest option:

" My cousin to the West has sent me word of: {his brother being held for ransom} {bandit siege} {unrest among the undead} {an artifact of some renown} {macguffin of your choice}.

"Let us sally forth and achieve victory!"


Depending on your faction/prestige/diplo capital etc. if you decline the quest, perhaps the hero leaves your service with all of the goodies they are wearing...  Or they vanish for 20 turns and then return... with a few scars?!? 

Is that hard to code?  I dunno... But I think that would be fun!

Or how about the hero asks for a raise 30 turns in:  My husband/wife/castellan/chamberlain sends word of a poor harvest, castle sunk into the swamp, castle burned down, fell over then sunk into the swamp... ahem etc...  I require 20% of your current treasury to remedy this...

The game needs more quests, items, champs, other NPCs, roving merchants etc to be that OMG my eyes are bleeding but i must see what happens next turn I'll sleep when I'm dead TBS Fantasy 4x game of Win.


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February 9, 2012 7:58:36 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I'm liking this.

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February 9, 2012 11:57:55 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

good stuff 

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February 9, 2012 12:19:08 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Yes! I have long though that having heroes just lying about was more like Monty Python than Elemental. Make it use the quest functionality with a faction specific requirement. if you go into the wrong side's quest you end up having to fight them... and they will be very hard to defeat. Then just make sure the goodie hut persists after the battle is lost and suddenly you have an engaging way to recruit heroes. 

I also like the Slots idea, but you should get 3 to start. I know balancing discussion is moot without the idea in the game. The point would be that players that specialize in recruiting a merry band of heroes would be able to get more than someone focusing on large armies or civics. 

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February 9, 2012 4:31:10 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Personally I'd prefer the champion-slots limited to a starting number of 2, or even possibly 1. If someone wants three slots they can start with an advantage that increases the number of slots, but that comes at the cost of not choosing other advantages. That way they are forced to make the trade off for extra champions early on if they want that to be one of their advantages in-game. Starting with 3 slots means they could have a stack of 4 champions (3 + Sovereign) rocking around the world without having had to make any trade off.

As well as that, the advantage of champion-huts is that they are not faction-limited. That way a player is not in a negative position if the only faction huts they encounter are of the opposing faction.

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