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Johnius5
Johnius5
Join Date 09/2009
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[Suggestions/discussion] Unit Equipment & research tech woes

January 31, 2012 12:46:55 PM from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Major concerns about research and unit equipment.  As it stands, we research the next tech for equipment and now can build units using the new equipment.  Equipment doesn't really change the function of units except by boosting stats.  This is a hugely missed opportunity. 

Personally I believe this game design philosophy is missing an important point. This game should be about training armies for magical warfare, not equipping random people with +1 daggers and fancy boots.

My suggestions is to re-tool the warfare research branch to represent more "military doctrine" areas of study and less "boots and blades".  My breakdown would be as follows:

1) Unit formations/tactics: research tech to unlock unit "types".  This would include heavy infantry blocks to light skirmishing units.  Each class of unit would have specific inherent bonuses regardless if they have a short sword, hammer, axe or a spear. I feel this unit class variety is important, otherwise there is never any real reason to not produce the max number of your current best unit (except due to resource constrains).

Ideally this would also help improve tactical combat variety as well.

2)  Logistics: research involving the movement and management of armies (not just individual units).  This may include techs that unlock field hospitals for a passive improved unit recovery rate, or baggage trains for improved army movement rate, or the ability for the army to "dig in" for defensive bonuses etc.  The key is that warfare techs should also have some universal abilities/passive bonuses.

3) Finally weapons:  There should be a specific ability tied to each weapon type in order to maintain some level of usefulness throughout the game.  Examples:Spears get significant bonus vs. cavalry, Pikes get to strike first, javelins are thrown before close combat etc... not just adjustments to the damage type.

I understand that perhaps the game I am expecting/wishing FE to be is quite different from the game the devs are designing/creating.  My only intention is to give my personal opinion and participate in the beta to the best of my ability; my intention isn't to knock the devs or to be non-constructive with my criticism.  Thanks! 

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Johnius5
Vanadrom
Join Date 07/2006
+70
Reply #1 January 31, 2012 12:55:13 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I just put something together like this, how about amending your comments and suggestions to this thread?

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Johnius5
CrazyHarlequin
Join Date 05/2006
+4
Reply #2 January 31, 2012 3:07:35 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting ,
quoting post

1) Unit formations/tactics: research tech to unlock unit "types".  This would include heavy infantry blocks to light skirmishing units.  Each class of unit would have specific inherent bonuses regardless if they have a short sword, hammer, axe or a spear. I feel this unit class variety is important, otherwise there is never any real reason to not produce the max number of your current best unit (except due to resource constrains).

Ideally this would also help improve tactical combat variety as well.

 

My first thought is that unit role like this is determined by traits and equipment, but the more I consider it the more I like this idea. Maybe there could be a fourth 'trait' slot that can only have unit-type traits added to it (and the other trait slots can't have unit-type traits included). This could be used to provide specialisations the units giving them a wider tactical role. E.G. the Archer role could have -50% strength but +2 initiative (counters the penalty for bows), while the Skirmisher role could have a limit to unit size, but a bonus to dodge.

I actually quite like this idea, and as research continues and the kingdom/empire techs up and expands more and more unit sizes could be opened. Darklings/Wildlings could be their own unit-type trait, as could Scions.

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Johnius5
Johnius5
Join Date 09/2009
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Reply #3 January 31, 2012 3:51:13 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting CrazyHarlequin,
reply 2

My first thought is that unit role like this is determined by traits and equipment, but the more I consider it the more I like this idea. Maybe there could be a fourth 'trait' slot that can only have unit-type traits added to it (and the other trait slots can't have unit-type traits included). This could be used to provide specialisations the units giving them a wider tactical role. E.G. the Archer role could have -50% strength but +2 initiative (counters the penalty for bows), while the Skirmisher role could have a limit to unit size, but a bonus to dodge.

I actually quite like this idea, and as research continues and the kingdom/empire techs up and expands more and more unit sizes could be opened. Darklings/Wildlings could be their own unit-type trait, as could Scions.

 

I agree there are many ways to implement these ideas.  Fundamentally I would like to see more defined roles/unit types that actually function fairly different.  Right now the only real difference between units are those equipped with range weapons or close combat weapons; otherwise its just a matter of incremental improvements to attack/defense with better armor/weapons.

As it now stands if someone sends a stack of their best units its just a slugfest with no real tactics other than the basic one of guided targeting or the occasional magic spells.

 

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Johnius5
seanw3
Join Date 12/2007
+141
Reply #4 January 31, 2012 4:18:46 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

3) Finally weapons:  There should be a specific ability tied to each weapon type in order to maintain some level of usefulness throughout the game.  Examples:Spears get significant bonus vs. cavalry, Pikes get to strike first, javelins are thrown before close combat etc... not just adjustments to the damage type.

There is certainly room for improvement here. One of the biggest flaws is that regular units can't crit. There should be and incentive to get a high dexterity to crit better. Axes give +1 to crit, but since it is disabled apparently for regulars, it only works for heroes. Axes are essentially useless. The point should be to make the player choose an armor combination and weapon type. Right now we just tech past a whole load of weapons that are never useful again. I would like to see some better differentiation in weapons and armor. 

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Johnius5
Lord Reliant
Join Date 03/2006
+39
Reply #5 February 1, 2012 5:38:54 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Well said. I'd love more strategic variety in the tactical view, and adding logistics or weapons that do something would help greatly.

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