Fallen Enchantress: Champions

By on June 20, 2011 5:08:26 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Derek Paxton

Join Date 03/2003
+118

 

There are five primary paths to victory in Fallen Enchantress.  They are Armies, Infrastructure, Champions, Magic and Diplomacy.  A player has to decide how much he wants to invest in each of those areas, and each area has its own benefits.  These represent the 5 sections of our tech tree and research choices are the primary way that players decide what they are going to be good at (and not good at).

But other choices play into this too.  The decision to leave your sovereign in your capital (where their charisma boosts your population growth for armies and infrastructure) or send them out to explore is made in the first few turns.  Sending them out allows you to get a glimpse of the world, find potential sites for new cities, get experience, salvage supplies, complete quests and find champions.

 

This journal is going to talk about that last option.   There are two types of champions in Fallen Enchantress, kingdom champions and empire champions.  Players can only recruit champions from their allegiance, opposite allegiance champions can be attacked.  So if you are playing as kingdom you can go out and hire kingdom champions, and kill the empire champions so your opponents don’t get them.

 

Champions don’t run around as they did in War of Magic, they don’t come to you, you must go to them.  There are no randomly generated champions in the game, each champion is specifically designed to be unique and interesting.  Most are found in the world, but some unique champions can only be earned through quests.

 

Champions are different from normal units because they can choose traits when they level up (as discussed in an earlier dev journal), they can wield the special armor, items and weapons in the world.  Although you can outfit your armies with some pretty good magical armor and weapons (with enough crystal, production time and techs) they won’t compare to the equipment your champions can get.  Champions have a higher accuracy than normal units, they have a chance to crit for double damage when attacking, they aren’t effected by overkill*, they can be imbued to cast spells (more about that in a future dev journal).  And, although it’s possible to design units with traits, champions have the most interesting ones.  Champions also get experience from quests**.

But before you go out to try to create an all champion army (btw: Altar is the best faction to attempt this with) they do have their weaknesses.  They are expensive to recruit, they don’t tend to do as much damage or have as many hit points as large formations of units.  And they typically need to have a few levels before they really start to be effective, unlike a large formation of archers which starts killing right away.

We also have some spells specifically for players looking to use their champions in interesting ways.  Paragon weakens your sovereign, but gives a free level to the champion of your choice.  Great for players who want to leave their sovereign at home and adventure with their heroes.  Less altruistic sovereigns may choose to use Steal Spirit and taken some of their champions talents for themselves (at the cost of the champions life, but what do they say about making omelets).

How you decide to handle champions will be an important part of playing Fallen Enchantress.  I look forward to hearing back from all of you on who your favorite champions are, and what strategies work the best for you when the beta begins.


* Overkill- Some monsters damage is modified by the amount of units in the defending stack.  Don’t send large armies of peasants against dragons, they won’t last long.

** Experience from Quests- Armies on quests will get experience from battles, as normal, but all quests in Fallen Enchantress also give experience based on their difficulty which is only rewarded to champions on that quest.

 

 

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June 20, 2011 5:21:50 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Neat.

 

I'd like to see a few wandering sorts around still though.

 

Also, one other thing.  I really can't see players keeping their sovereign in the city initially.  It's more fun to explore.  I think people always will choose the fun option , especially since when it goes bad you just save and reload.

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June 20, 2011 5:30:38 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

If the player sovereign still gains 10% of all xp gained by your faction, like E:wom, a sovereign is perfect for creating a sit-at-home guy as he can accrue experience doing nothing. 

Speaking of which, are all the champions adventurers or are there city-type champions as well? And will they, too, gain experience or are there quests suitable for their talents?

Loving the UI.

It sounds like you're taking some concepts from E:Wom and building on them. Which is really what is needed, a sort of rpg-fantasy-level of complexity to the main game. I can see why Frogboy thinks noone will be playing E:wom once FE is released.

when it goes bad you just save and reload

 

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June 20, 2011 5:37:00 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Champions don’t run around as they did in War of Magic, they don’t come to you, you must go to them. There are no randomly generated champions in the game, each champion is specifically designed to be unique and interesting. Most are found in the world, but some unique champions can only be earned through quests.

I like this design decision and think that can add a lot of fun.  Reminds me of old school romance of the 3 kingdoms and trying to recruit Lu Bu.  If I know X hero is out there, depending on how balance is sorted, I'd probably go out of my way to recruit them.  Thanks for another journal!

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June 20, 2011 5:40:41 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Alstein,
Also, one other thing.  I really can't see players keeping their sovereign in the city initially.  It's more fun to explore.  I think people always will choose the fun option , especially since when it goes bad you just save and reload.

 

Very true.  The player gets a free champion on turn one, so he does have the option to just send the champion out, just send the sovereign out, send them both out, or send neither out.  The player also starts with 6 population (so he can start building a variety of stuff right away) but additional population is pretty slow going without the sovereign or a champion in the city.

As I play I find myself either heading out right away with my sovereign and the champion.  Or waiting for the my first peasant group (all single units are champions in FE, the smallest trained unit comes in groups of 3).  Sometimes I stay long for some other boost, especially if Im playing Kraxis or Relias (who both have high Charisma), or if I'm playing a faction that is really close to a tech I want (love playing as Tarth and being one step away from the tech that allows me to build groups of 6).

Then again if there is an inn or goodie hut at the edges of my vision I'm often tempted to head out for it, then find something else, and something else until I find myself half a continent away in a constant loop of "just one more thing".  Or if I found my empire right by a monster lair I usually leave my sovereign and champion at home to defend against the inevitable monster it unleashes.

So personally I find a lot of variety, but I'm curious to see what you guys think.

Quoting Heavenfall,
If the player sovereign still gains 10% of all xp gained by your faction, like E:wom, a sovereign is perfect for creating a sit-at-home guy as he can accrue experience doing nothing.

Speaking of which, are all the champions adventurers or are there city-type champions as well? And will they, too, gain experience or are there quests suitable for their talents?

Loving the UI.

It sounds like you're taking some concepts from E:Wom and building on them. Which is really what is needed, a sort of rpg-fantasy-level of complexity to the main game. I can see why Frogboy thinks noone will be playing E:wom once FE is released. 

There are champions that boost gildar, research, improve training or construction times, some that boost the armies that they are with, some that are better at certain types of spells.  And all of these things can be boosted with the levelup traits.

I'm so glad you mentioned the UI, there is only a small glimpse here in the screenshots but the art team has done an amazing job.  Brad designed a lot of the UI layout and it is very clean and elegant.  It walks a fine line between having some style (not looking like an operating systems purely functional interface) and not being full of chrome that distracts and gets in the way.  I really like it, and when I go back and play WoM (as I just did to try out the 1.3 beta changes) its the loss of the new UI that bothers me most.

 

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June 20, 2011 5:51:45 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Assuming the modding support is still there, the community should be able to create interesting champions to populate the world as well.     Sounds great!

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June 20, 2011 5:54:46 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Derek Paxton,
There are champions that boost gildar, research, improve training or construction times, some that boost the armies that they are with, some that are better at certain types of spells. And all of these things can be boosted with the levelup traits.

Just curious, but are the gildar/research/training improvements active only when the champion is stationed in the city? Or, more importanly, will we have the ability to make it that way ourselves, if it isn't already?

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June 20, 2011 5:57:28 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

This looks simply amazing so far, but will there still be the ability to create a custom faction and character ingame, or at the very least be able to place them via modding?  I would normally assume yes, but don't feel much harm in asking.

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June 20, 2011 5:57:32 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

And I have a new desktop.

All looks very good. The empire/kingdoms restriction seems a little artificial to me, but it's your lore and I can't blame you for running with it. Otherwise it's pretty much as I would have done it. I'm intrigued by the idea of "weakening" and "strengthening," dare I hope this is how essense is being reincorporated?

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June 20, 2011 5:58:15 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Hurry up but take your time! Looks/sounds incredible!

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June 20, 2011 6:19:20 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

You guys starting to see why I'm having a hard time working on War of Magic v1.3? FE is just so amazing.

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June 20, 2011 6:21:33 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

This sounds great.  I agree with Alstein, I would like a couple wandering champions that you can recruit.  if not, perhaps if your Sovereign stays in the capital, it can trigger a champion coming to the city looking for employment.  As your prestige increases so do your chances of having someone come looking for work.

 

Any chance the other races would look at switching sides.  Perhaps a Magnar champion is tired of the Empire ways and wants to lend his talents to the Kingdoms, or vice versa.

 

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June 20, 2011 6:25:54 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Star20,
This looks simply amazing so far, but will there still be the ability to create a custom faction and character ingame, or at the very least be able to place them via modding?  I would normally assume yes, but don't feel much harm in asking.
 

  Yes, any player can design a custom sovereign or custom faction.  It has all been redesigned.  You don't put points into a sovereign's intelligence for example.  Instead you pick traits and weaknesses that may modify your stats or may add new abilities or penalties.  Everything costs 1 point, sovereigns start with 8 points, factions get 2 points.  But all the decisions are much larger than the picks in WoM.

Quoting Sethai,
And I have a new desktop.

All looks very good. The empire/kingdoms restriction seems a little artificial to me, but it's your lore and I can't blame you for running with it. Otherwise it's pretty much as I would have done it. I'm intrigued by the idea of "weakening" and "strengthening," dare I hope this is how essense is being reincorporated?

Yes, essence was the inspiration for those spells.  I liked the concept of essence, but I didn't like the implementation, much like Morale.  I don't need a system to give + and -'s that may lead to effects.  Just apply the effects.  We talked about what the concept for essence and one of the coolest ideas was Brad's concept to have a sovereign who would use his spirit to power his champions.  "Do i keep my power for myself, or share it with others?"  So I added a spell that does exactly that.  And of course while we were adding it, it's way to cool to have a spell that does the opposite (I think our Art Director suggested that one, and I thought it was great).

Quoting KingHobbit,
This sounds great.  I agree with Alstein, I would like a couple wandering champions that you can recruit.  if not, perhaps if your Sovereign stays in the capital, it can trigger a champion coming to the city looking for employment.  As your prestige increases so do your chances of having someone come looking for work.

Any chance the other races would look at switching sides.  Perhaps a Magnar champion is tired of the Empire ways and wants to lend his talents to the Kingdoms, or vice versa.

I don't have events in FE at the moment, but I like them in the 1.3 beta so I'm looking to add them.  One that gives an opportunity to recruit a champion could be cool.

Currently the only way to get a opposite allegiance champion is through quests, and the ones that give those are pretty advanced.  There are things that no Kingdom champion can do, and things that no Empire champion can do (more about that when we go over the new magic system).  So normally those things are denied you when you are playing the opposite faction.  And that's a big part of why we don't allow players to recruit from the other side.  Plus its fun to run around and kill the other sides champion, especially if you happen to be playing as an Empire and that champion is Janusk.

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June 20, 2011 6:38:53 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

If you have a "stay at home" Sovereign or Champion that sits in a city and gives it bonuses, do they gain experience from doing that? Or do they share XP when your others do stuff?

 

Looking good otherwise.

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June 20, 2011 6:39:08 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

wow looking much better and a lot less of numbers.... numbers might be good but they really need a use, Perks / abilitys i like over numbers seeing as it  just ignores the numbers all together or just abuses them. meaning more fun.

So the magic spells is going to be picked from a random selection like it was in MOM or AoW?

what about Races being different from the faction (kingdom or empire) they're a part of?

how might i get a wallpaper size of 6116 x 1080, in game?

might this be fun as dwarf fortress?

might it be cooler if we got to pick what our landscape might be like seeing as i might like an icy waste.... wonderland rather then a scorching hot magma raining desert.

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June 20, 2011 6:41:49 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Yes, I am liking the sound of all this. So is absorbing alot of souls a strategy you could pursue, to make an incredibly powerful sovereign, or is it more just a way to get rid of no longer needed champions. I guess what I'm asking is does it make a noticeable impact on your sovereign?

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June 20, 2011 7:04:48 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

"There are two types of champions in Fallen Enchantress, kingdom champions and empire champions."

Derek,

Maybe you would consider a 3rd class of Champion, or perhaps not a Champion per se, but the Specialist.

Specialists are not hired, but might 'appear' when city conditions are right (percentage chance). This could not only further help to diversify the cities (only one Specialist per city allowed) but only larger cities (level 4 and above) would have a chance to spawn one. Specialists have no combat rating and do not have attributes, but depending on how you impliment them, they could gather experience (i.e. x per turn allowing you to add further traits to your specialist making him more effective or desirable).

Because they are not combat pieces, they can be captured and either absorbed into your empire, ransomed back to the original owner, sold to opposing monarchs or released. They could be moved from a city to another city, but their abilities could change radically depending on the size of the city the specialist is stationed in (i.e. the lower the level of the city, the less effective the specialist).  

All specialists, increase Prestige when stationed in a city (base trait as a city is considered extremely lucky to have a single specialist) along with at least one additional benefit/trait. Some traits that could be used in this way are (and I'm including some of the standard traits):

Merchant Prince: Gives bonus to gildar production in city, but only if the city has a Bazaar/Marketplace.

BeastMaster: Increases the output of Warg Kennels and Wild horse stables. Needs to be stationed in a city where the stables or kennels are within 3 hexes.

Scholar: Gives bonus to Technological research. Needs to be in a city that has a school or university.

Engineer: Gives production bonus. Needs to be in a city that has a Mining Guild or Blacksmith.

Lore Master: Gives an Arcane Research boast in a city that has Monastery.

War Master: Gives a city better trained troops if stationed in a city with a Barracks.

Other types: Agriculturalist, Artiste, Orator, Diplomat.

This is akin to the 'Specialists' that are a part of the Civilization game series. The boost from one of these specialists should be greater than you would gain from any building improvement.

Basically these are the Heroes for the countries that don't need to go to war.

Thoughts?

 

 

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June 20, 2011 7:05:35 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

<jagged alliance 2>There's Stuff!</jagged alliance 2>

 

OMFG THE GUI LOOKS LIKE IT WAS DESIGNED AND DRAWN BY ACTUAL PROFESSIONALS. +13 TO ANTICIPATION.

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June 20, 2011 7:17:36 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Frogboy,
You guys starting to see why I'm having a hard time working on War of Magic v1.3? FE is just so amazing.
isn't FE just a remake of war of magic seeing as most people that bought it are getting FE freely? seeing as FE is based of WoM your working on FE in a sense.

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June 20, 2011 7:19:41 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Looks cool.  Very excited to see that the champions are going to have Kingdom and Empire ones, along with each one haveing their own race and story!  That one is a Mancer, so cool, I love little details like that.

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June 20, 2011 7:36:54 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting KillzEmAllGod,

Quoting Frogboy, reply 10You guys starting to see why I'm having a hard time working on War of Magic v1.3? FE is just so amazing. isn't FE just a remake of war of magic seeing as most people that bought it are getting FE freely? seeing as FE is based of WoM your working on FE in a sense.

FE's forked at this point, and looking at how different a lot of stuff already works (housing is gone for example among other things, units are different, champions are vastly different) working on WoM isn't working on FE unless you're working on something they can share like engine upgrades.

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June 20, 2011 8:29:08 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Will a champion that produces a bonus (i.e. +1 gildar) need to be in a city to produce that bonus or will they be able to run around killing stuff while still providing that bonus to the faction?  Or will there be both?  Some champions must be in a city to produce the bonus ... others can run around and still produce their bonus?

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June 20, 2011 8:56:36 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Wow, awesome update. This is exactly the kind of thing I was hoping to hear from FE. Heroes now sound like they infuse the world with flavor, and have been massively upgraded from mere army units. Judging from the fact that "Champions" is one of the victory paths for the game, heroes' importance have gone way, way up. Very excited to see this new game mechanic in action.

Two quick questions. One, I really appreciate the fact that the hero pool is now split between kingdoms and empires. No doubt that'll help with the immersion and building solid characters (not to mention the new recruitment requirement possibilities! Love it!). Having said that, will all empire heroes be of the fallen races, and will all kingdom heroes be of the "human (non-Kraxis)" races? I suppose it's an aesthetic point, but it might be nice to have the occasional Wraith who sees things differently from her fallen brethren.

Also, I love hearing that we still have the sovereign and faction creators (lots of love for this thread). Are there any plans for a hero-creator tool?

Quoting Frogboy,
You guys starting to see why I'm having a hard time working on War of Magic v1.3? FE is just so amazing.

Yes. Yes I do.

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June 20, 2011 9:04:20 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Derek Paxton,

 Plus its fun to run around and kill the other sides champion, especially if you happen to be playing as an Empire and that champion is Janusk.

You just converted me to an Empire player.

 

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June 20, 2011 9:41:05 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

It sounds cool.  You could work the the 'attract' prestige bonuses of inns and similar buildings into the spawn rate.  Perhaps when the city level (population) is high enough and an attract building are present there is a chance for an adventurer to become drawn to the city.  Could work as an additional bonus to building certain types of structures (perhaps a war college increases the likely hood of seeing champions that are military officers) where they affect the types of classes that will appear.

Would it be set up where you would have to investigate a location for them ( such as the pub) or would some of them approach your sov looking for employment or to be set on an adventure/mission.  Could allow you to put them on retainer for less initial cost- but pay more in total.

If you kill a champion from the opposite faction, can you loot their body, or have thievery as an option?  Maybe institute a combat penalty as you are trying to subdue them or kill them without damaging their equipment.  Would they make attacks of opportunity on your structures and units doing hit and run?

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June 21, 2011 12:42:37 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting TheProgress,
<jagged alliance 2>There's Stuff!</jagged alliance 2>

 

OMFG THE GUI LOOKS LIKE IT WAS DESIGNED AND DRAWN BY ACTUAL PROFESSIONALS. +13 TO ANTICIPATION.

 

I'm ok with the old UI, but this is sexy!

can we have it in regular EWOM? i'll wait until 1.5 if i have to! [e digicons]:')[/e]

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