Fallen Enchantress: Champions

By on June 20, 2011 5:08:26 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Derek Paxton

Join Date 03/2003
+173

 

There are five primary paths to victory in Fallen Enchantress.  They are Armies, Infrastructure, Champions, Magic and Diplomacy.  A player has to decide how much he wants to invest in each of those areas, and each area has its own benefits.  These represent the 5 sections of our tech tree and research choices are the primary way that players decide what they are going to be good at (and not good at).

But other choices play into this too.  The decision to leave your sovereign in your capital (where their charisma boosts your population growth for armies and infrastructure) or send them out to explore is made in the first few turns.  Sending them out allows you to get a glimpse of the world, find potential sites for new cities, get experience, salvage supplies, complete quests and find champions.

 

This journal is going to talk about that last option.   There are two types of champions in Fallen Enchantress, kingdom champions and empire champions.  Players can only recruit champions from their allegiance, opposite allegiance champions can be attacked.  So if you are playing as kingdom you can go out and hire kingdom champions, and kill the empire champions so your opponents don’t get them.

 

Champions don’t run around as they did in War of Magic, they don’t come to you, you must go to them.  There are no randomly generated champions in the game, each champion is specifically designed to be unique and interesting.  Most are found in the world, but some unique champions can only be earned through quests.

 

Champions are different from normal units because they can choose traits when they level up (as discussed in an earlier dev journal), they can wield the special armor, items and weapons in the world.  Although you can outfit your armies with some pretty good magical armor and weapons (with enough crystal, production time and techs) they won’t compare to the equipment your champions can get.  Champions have a higher accuracy than normal units, they have a chance to crit for double damage when attacking, they aren’t effected by overkill*, they can be imbued to cast spells (more about that in a future dev journal).  And, although it’s possible to design units with traits, champions have the most interesting ones.  Champions also get experience from quests**.

But before you go out to try to create an all champion army (btw: Altar is the best faction to attempt this with) they do have their weaknesses.  They are expensive to recruit, they don’t tend to do as much damage or have as many hit points as large formations of units.  And they typically need to have a few levels before they really start to be effective, unlike a large formation of archers which starts killing right away.

We also have some spells specifically for players looking to use their champions in interesting ways.  Paragon weakens your sovereign, but gives a free level to the champion of your choice.  Great for players who want to leave their sovereign at home and adventure with their heroes.  Less altruistic sovereigns may choose to use Steal Spirit and taken some of their champions talents for themselves (at the cost of the champions life, but what do they say about making omelets).

How you decide to handle champions will be an important part of playing Fallen Enchantress.  I look forward to hearing back from all of you on who your favorite champions are, and what strategies work the best for you when the beta begins.


* Overkill- Some monsters damage is modified by the amount of units in the defending stack.  Don’t send large armies of peasants against dragons, they won’t last long.

** Experience from Quests- Armies on quests will get experience from battles, as normal, but all quests in Fallen Enchantress also give experience based on their difficulty which is only rewarded to champions on that quest.

 

 

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June 21, 2011 12:49:38 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Are the champions going to wander around with a club and no armor as to be easily killed by the opposite faction?  Or are they going to be able to protect themselves?

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June 21, 2011 2:47:39 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Looking good! I was just thinking that it had been awhile since we'd gotten some more info on E:FE.

 

Going out to recruit champions sounds good. High risk, high reward I think as the Fen Queen seems to be situated near the chasm/fissure. Could be dangerous to recruit her. Sounds like fun.

 

I do hope that there are a few wandering champions though. At least the occasional one. Wandering minstrel or masterless ronin type of thing.

 

Perhaps also a double agent champion would be fun. While they are in your city, they provide divination to the opposition. Until discovered of course.

Maybe that could be saved for an expansion with espionage though.

 

Anyway, excited about E:FE. ^^

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June 21, 2011 3:21:09 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Alstein,
Neat.

 

I'd like to see a few wandering sorts around still though.

 

Also, one other thing.  I really can't see players keeping their sovereign in the city initially.  It's more fun to explore.  I think people always will choose the fun option , especially since when it goes bad you just save and reload.

I like to roleplay and party it up in the capital. Women, booze, and endless games of naked Twister. When the hordes of peasants in the wastelands hear of my shennanigans they flock to my faction in droves.

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June 21, 2011 5:28:47 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Awesome wallpaper!

You're making a classic guys. Can't wait for the beta.

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June 21, 2011 5:30:24 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

The prospect of having every hero be unique is very much to my liking. I very much look forward to seeing the Magic journal. I'm mostly interested in one particular fact, if spells can have multiple effects, side effects and if they can backfire. Heavenfall mentioned that in WoM they can't, and that really limits the chaotic potential of magic.

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June 21, 2011 8:29:15 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Oooh, Me like screenshots, me like artwork ! Me like new champion systems !!

"Less altruistic sovereigns may choose to use Steal Spirit and taken some of their champions talents for themselves (at the cost of the champions life, but what do they say about making omelets)."

This one will be particularly interesting !!!

So you can make very powerful sovereign just by sitting at home and "draining" the life away of every champions you get ? That's a really interesting idea... I love it ! I think I'm going to use that tactic !

You guys are having the most wonderful ideas ever for this game and it's very promising ! Once again, can't wait to learn more about the magic system !

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June 21, 2011 10:26:33 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting crystlshake,
It sounds cool.  You could work the the 'attract' prestige bonuses of inns and similar buildings into the spawn rate.  Perhaps when the city level (population) is high enough and an attract building are present there is a chance for an adventurer to become drawn to the city.  Could work as an additional bonus to building certain types of structures (perhaps a war college increases the likely hood of seeing champions that are military officers) where they affect the types of classes that will appear.

Would it be set up where you would have to investigate a location for them ( such as the pub) or would some of them approach your sov looking for employment or to be set on an adventure/mission.  Could allow you to put them on retainer for less initial cost- but pay more in total.

This would be just a little head nod to how you got heroes in MoM.  You could use the spell, and had to later in the game, but at first you just waited for them to come to you.  Fame increased rate.

Quoting nitey,
"There are two types of champions in Fallen Enchantress, kingdom champions and empire champions."

Derek,

Maybe you would consider a 3rd class of Champion, or perhaps not a Champion per se, but the Specialist.

Specialists are not hired, but might 'appear' when city conditions are right (percentage chance). This could not only further help to diversify the cities (only one Specialist per city allowed) but only larger cities (level 4 and above) would have a chance to spawn one. Specialists have no combat rating and do not have attributes, but depending on how you impliment them, they could gather experience (i.e. x per turn allowing you to add further traits to your specialist making him more effective or desirable).

Because they are not combat pieces, they can be captured and either absorbed into your empire, ransomed back to the original owner, sold to opposing monarchs or released. They could be moved from a city to another city, but their abilities could change radically depending on the size of the city the specialist is stationed in (i.e. the lower the level of the city, the less effective the specialist).  

All specialists, increase Prestige when stationed in a city (base trait as a city is considered extremely lucky to have a single specialist) along with at least one additional benefit/trait. Some traits that could be used in this way are (and I'm including some of the standard traits):

Merchant Prince: Gives bonus to gildar production in city, but only if the city has a Bazaar/Marketplace.

BeastMaster: Increases the output of Warg Kennels and Wild horse stables. Needs to be stationed in a city where the stables or kennels are within 3 hexes.

Scholar: Gives bonus to Technological research. Needs to be in a city that has a school or university.

Engineer: Gives production bonus. Needs to be in a city that has a Mining Guild or Blacksmith.

Lore Master: Gives an Arcane Research boast in a city that has Monastery.

War Master: Gives a city better trained troops if stationed in a city with a Barracks.

Other types: Agriculturalist, Artiste, Orator, Diplomat.

This is akin to the 'Specialists' that are a part of the Civilization game series. The boost from one of these specialists should be greater than you would gain from any building improvement.

Basically these are the Heroes for the countries that don't need to go to war.

Thoughts?

 

 

I like this idea and this type of champion could be the one attracted by prestige.  Or be triggered by random events instead of the quest (which I love the idea of as well).

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June 21, 2011 12:14:47 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting Alstein,
Neat.

 

I'd like to see a few wandering sorts around still though.

 

 

 

Or you could have the wandering champions be lower levels and the location based champions more powerful.

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June 21, 2011 12:26:48 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

For you guys that say you like the new UI, I don't think we see enough of it in these screenshots to be able to tell do we?  Maybe we need a Dev journal with lots of UI detail.

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June 21, 2011 12:37:24 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I never once left my sovereign in a city in EWOM, but it sounds like Derek might be giving us a few interesting reasons to stay back.

1)  We get a free champion to start (of course, we had Janusk before so this isn't totally new)

2)  We start with 6 population but cities will grow super slowly without a charismatic champion in the city?

3)  Perhaps our sovereigns will now have huge bonus producing traits when stationed in a city like +5 tech/+5 arcane/+5 gildar/+5 mana or faster unit training or building construction (-5 turns to build) or free troop upgrade size (from 3 to 6 or 6 to 9, etc.) or free weapon advancement when building troops (dagger to short sword or small axe to mace).

Thoughts? 

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June 21, 2011 1:40:43 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Trojasmic,
For you guys that say you like the new UI, I don't think we see enough of it in these screenshots to be able to tell do we?  Maybe we need a Dev journal with lots of UI detail.

Sure, but, when i see the "recruit champions" screen. - it looks cool, stylish and it has all infos you need - i can´t belive that the rest is worse.

 

Thanks Derek. Another journal that makes me more and more excited.  

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June 21, 2011 1:45:50 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Trojasmic,
For you guys that say you like the new UI, I don't think we see enough of it in these screenshots to be able to tell do we?  Maybe we need a Dev journal with lots of UI detail.

We're liking what we see, obviously. Not what we don't see.

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June 21, 2011 2:01:53 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

When i read Dereks second post, it seems like he find the time to (really) play the game. I think this very important. Furthermore between the lines we can read something about the differences of factions.

 

 

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June 21, 2011 3:30:26 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

"There are two types of champions in Fallen Enchantress, kingdom champions and empire champions. Players can only recruit champions from their allegiance, opposite allegiance champions can be attacked."

I like the restricion on being able to only recruit champions of your alleigiance; however, I would 

1) Like to have the option to slay champions of the same allegiance with the effect that it would make it harder & much more expensive for your sovereign to recruit more champions.

2) Like to see some champions respond negatively to a sovereign that razes cities of their race. Example: An Ironeer sovereign razes the city of the Mancers. This may cause your Mancer champions to leave your service for another fraction  (50% per Mancer city razed) taking his armor and weapons with him, or to questions your actions via a popup. This would make razing a city of the same allegiance more of a strategic choice with potential costs and benefits.

Example: You, the sovereign of the Ironeers with 2 Mancer champions in his employ decides to raze a city of the Mancers. One of your Mancer champions leaves your employ when the city is razed, while the other asks you why you razed the city. You can respond 1) It was a military decision or 2) They needed to be taught a lesson. If the second this mancer champion will leave your service.

3) I would like to see charisma affect your ability to recruit certain higher level champions. I.e. You might need a charisma rating of 15 to recruit a reclusive sage or a skilled Level 4 wandering hero. Some champions might offer to join a sovereign with a high charisma rating and demand that sovereigns with a lower score complete a quest to engage their services.

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June 21, 2011 3:32:13 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Can I sign up for the Alpha test already?

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June 21, 2011 4:03:56 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Will we be able to create new champions for the game?  Much like the Heros in AOW:SM

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June 21, 2011 4:05:25 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting Alstein,
Neat.

 

I'd like to see a few wandering sorts around still though.

 

Also, one other thing.  I really can't see players keeping their sovereign in the city initially.  It's more fun to explore.  I think people always will choose the fun option , especially since when it goes bad you just save and reload.

I'll keep them in the city much like I do with AOW:SM but I may have to recruit at least one hero first from the shound of things

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June 21, 2011 4:11:18 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting Frogboy,
You guys starting to see why I'm having a hard time working on War of Magic v1.3? FE is just so amazing.

Hey Brad are you going to put that UI into WOM sometime in the future?

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June 21, 2011 4:35:10 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Bellack,
Quoting Frogboy,
reply 10
You guys starting to see why I'm having a hard time working on War of Magic v1.3? FE is just so amazing.

Hey Brad are you going to put that UI into WOM sometime in the future?

You are cruel!

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June 21, 2011 6:01:39 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

UI looks neat. I think the champions need some graphics diversity Bacadea looks little 'plain'. Some interesting armor, weapon or even jewelery could make them feel... unique.

 

Nah. I'm just a fan of GalCiv shipyard and I wish I could spend as much time in the FE sov/unit creator:D

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June 21, 2011 7:34:40 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Can your next journal entry be about the tactical battles or the sovereigns? I'm dying to hear more about both topics.

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June 22, 2011 7:11:04 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

" There are things that no Kingdom champion can do, and things that no Empire champion can do"

 

I like this idea. Diversity is important, one should not be allowed to get everything. If you can drain life, you cannot use direct heal - things like this.

 

And I'd love to have some way for monster lairs and champions to interact. Like having a champion riding a dragon, or a drake... I know it may sound a lot classic, but I think having high level champions be allowed to become even more powerful by riding, joining, melding with creatures would be awesome - like a high champ from the Empire making a blood pact with a Demon and being possessed by it... these kind of things. Again, powerful things should be rare and come at a high cost, but it'd be fun to have them. Going back to MoM, the most powerful spells could stop time or have meteors rain constantly over your opponents' cities in every part of the world. If "champion" is one of the five paths to victory as "magic" is, the most powerful champion should be able to do something Amazing. How about one of your champs could challenge the sovreign and kill him to get all his power? Or kill other champions to steal their power? I am sure you are better than me at coming up with something really unique.

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June 28, 2011 2:46:47 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

First, likes:

-the UI does look better

-like the apparent 'back to basics' thinking behind the 5 ways to win--seems like game fundamentals are now clearer (good for everyone)

 

Second, questions/features:

--the events method you mentioned as possible to having random champs be hirable is pretty important, IMHO. If not it puts the stay at home Sov at a disadvantage, even if their towns and armies are really prospering. So, you could do it at least two ways: when the prestige/size/charisma/trigger hits a certain degree it increases the probability of an event, said events to include a possibility of a champ willing to be hired; OR mod it so Sov's could put out an Award to attract Champs, and the bigger Awards plus bigger prestige/size/charisma tend to get the more frequent/better champs. Of course you would want some randomness to let the little guy have a chance, but the champs should want to be on the winning side...

--PLEASE PLEASE make the identity and location of some champions variable in every game. One of the just one more turn requirements for me is that sure knowledge of where I can get the same stuff every game = boring.  Ok maybe I am familiar with a specific quest, but if it moves location every game and has different champions every game, THAT is big-time important. Makes games/experiences unique not static.

Along with this, I would say that it would be a high priority on my list to have most every quest, location, and event mapped randomly per game.  If I know I can always go to the giant crack and I encounter great big baddy X to get XP, that's stifling--my strategy game is no longer strategy but a knowledge game.  I'm fine with stratified levels of quests like in EWOM, just randomize the contents so it's always new and different. PLEASE!

-the ability to buy production with extra money was a BIG strategy element of MoM.  It allowed you to react a little when threats appeared, thus again STRATEGY options.  Please consider this...

--A fun feature would be bribery of enemy champions.  Bribe them not to attack, to disband their army, to let you enter a town.  Maybe far-out, but would add depth to the diplomacy feature and a certain uncertainty if you aren't kind to your champions.  Affected by Champion morale statistic...

Thanks for listening...

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June 28, 2011 3:25:49 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Tim4fun,
but the champs should want to be on the winning side...

Some champions would want to be on the good side;

i.e. Raze Kingdom Cities = Less Appeal to some Kingdom Champions

i.e. Raze Mancer Cities = Less Appeal to Mancer Champions

If my Ironeer Sovereign burns and pillages Mancer cities (razes them) it should be harder for him to attract Mancer champion followers. If fact, it may ( a % chance based on charisma) cause Mancer champions in his employ to leave his service for that of another lord.

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