This is something you guys need to decide fast and stick to the decision. Last week you said people that owned the game by the time of 1.3 (or something like that), either way I'm pretty sure this is something that is best decided quick and whatever you do don't change your mind.

So, just to get this straight. Last week you said you were going to fine tune the game till 1.3 and call that the vanilla version, making the demo out of it.

What you are saying now is that this (1.3) would be in fact a new expansion, a free one to everyone even people who just buy only the vanilla game.

I don't see what is the benefit. Say someone reads about Elemental 1 year from now and buys the vanilla version. His game automatically updates to the expansion. When he starts playing he sees no traces of the vanilla game. This can be very confusing.

In short, what is the point of calling it an expansion instead of just a big huge "change it all" patch. I mean, anyone buying the game after the patch/expansion wouldn't even know what the game was like before anyway and if you aren't going to charge anyone for it, again, what is the point.

While personally, I'm in favour of the "wargame" approach to tactical battles, I do understand the concept of milestones and creating a game that is fun and working - instead of one that includes every possible daydream. =P   (incidentially, I wrote one of the posts on flanking but there are others)

On a grand scale, I consider colour far more important. The current magic system is just too drab and samey. It doesn't even have to be a complete rewrite but the different schools should clearly reflect a certain style, such as Life magic being all protecty and Death doind dastardly things to your enemy. (or yourself if you roll a fumble...)

Some design choices also feel very arbitrary, such as not being able to have a unit with four guys unless you research how to do such a thing at all.
Seriously. Hey, you four over there! You're a unit now, got that? Research done. =P

IMO you should always be able to build such a unit but making it fight effectively would be the result of research.
A very simplistic way only requiring very local changes: larger units cannot gain experience (or only very slowly) until you research the appropriate tech.
And 8 man squads cannot be built as veterans until you research the 8 man squad tech.

So even with a low-tech approach, you could slowly level up your large units and they would eventually become veterans. Only with far more painful trial and error (slower XP gain) than troops that use a proper command structure, seargants, and what have you. Military technology...

It's easy to ask for AI improvements but for that to happen, the game has to settle down a bit with the balancing more or less in place.

Which expansion ends up being the Game To End All Games... I seriously don't care.

First Page!  Ok couldn't resist that.  Ok now onto my comments.

These are all excellent ideas.  Having something to convert my 2000 extra materials would be awesome.

I like the initiative idea because currently, Mana + aoe spell + imbued champion + attacking first = win

The biggest fundamental new statistic that myself and LOTS of other posters thinks the game needs is some type of magical resistance. Otherwise right now I tend to steamroll the AI by researching the first direct damage spell then onto the first AOE spell, for me this is usually Infernal, then just always initiate the attack where I let my imbued champions cast unlimited range spells and/or AOE.  If nothing else put some more range constraints on the spells.  Unlimited range spells are only fun for so long when you realize the enemy stack only had 1-2 turns to try and move 2 squares ahead.

Also when you give your champions bows combined with some mana they seem to be unstoppable.  The AI doesn't seem to know how to counter ranged combat very well, which typically is to create some very fast moving, 4 squares at a time, troops and get in the face of the casters/archers.  AKA cavalry. Once the mounted troops close on the archers, it's usually bye bye archers. Right now I don't see that.

So please consider some type of balance to the magic system for bucket B or at least have the AI cast a few more spells and Im not counting the Empire Spy because that guy was overpowered to begin with.

Finally, thanks so much for the great game. There is no question you and your team are visionaries in game development, just consider the balance aspect as well.  Rock, paper, scissors always comes to mind. Although my kids tend to use "tornado" and how can I argue with that.

Good to know.

Are the plans for Time off for modding andAPI and scripting release still on track?  I can't wait to get my hands on Elementals guts and re-arange them via script.

Sammual

I don't think I would be a fan of converting materials, gold, crystals and such.  If you need one of them, forge a trade agreement and do it that way.  I would be more in line with having caravans be able to select what kind of trade is going on with foreign cities.  I send a caravan to city and give gold for metal.  I send caravan b to a different city and get crystals for metal.  Don't think I like the switching back and forth at will--even if there is a conversion loss.

Global Mana Pool--is the idea the person that controls the crystals controls that percentage of the Global Mana Pool.

Sounds like a solid conceptual plan Frogboy. And I greatly appreciate the free expansions, I know you guys didn't have to do that. I must admit that I'm particularly looking forward to version "C", I always tend to prefer more complexity and depth in my gameplay.

A couple of ideas for the various parts:

Part A (Elemental: War of Magic), could do with a bit more focus on world restoration/adventuring heroes/sovereign. Think of this as an "early" age, when the channelers were just emerging and are putting together struggling kingdoms. The idea here is to have more RPG elements, and focus more on having strong heroes/sovereign carry the weight rather than have massive armies (this can be an excuse for the more simplistic combat style). City building should be hard (perhaps making pioneers cost much higher), the focus would be in searching the world for elemental shards (which should be rare and never spawned near your starting point), and there should be more emphasis on taking control of them. Perhaps add some type of strong guardian monster groups (attracted to its power) to defend the shards, which you have to defeat before you can claim it. Then once claimed, the shards can generate a series of bonuses that would make a faction with one be much stronger than one without (personally I think the current bonus to spell damage just breaks the combat balance). This can also serve as a mechanic for a smaller kingdom to fight against a much bigger one. It also puts a lot more emphasis on fighting over them, and thus fitting of the "War of Magic" title. Ideally there should be more magic involve overall, such as global spells and enchantment, which I hope to see once we get global mana. Just to be clear, I'm not expecting this from v1.1, but this should be the ultimate goal of the A path at the end of the Elemental development cycle as a whole.

Part B then would focus on what happens afterward. Think of this as a more "middle" age, where magic isn't quite as rare and thus not as dominant. Shift the focus away from having powerful heroes by making them rarer and more expensive, then introduce larger and stronger armies by adding better training facilities, increase squad sizes, and more advance combat strategies. Thus, you could push most of the combat update into part B. You can relax the bonus you get from shards by adding some buildings that mimics the shard bonus so as to dilute its power, this could serve as an update to the civics tree (along with some prestige buildings to speed up city growth so that you can train bigger armies). At this point we want a more balanced focus between army building and hero building. Heroes should become less as super combatants, and more as army leaders. For example, they should develop skills to let them command more armies and bringing larger men into battle (update to the adventuring tree). It's important not to go too far and make them useless in combat though, they should still be able to help your army out if they want. More warfare tech is a no brainer for this part, but there should be more emphasis on choices in unit design, perhaps also adding more available magical equipments (magic tree update). You could also add some diplomacy techs that puts those diplomacy capital to some use as a diplomacy update. Perhaps put more emphasis on Kingdom/Empire hostility to drive the action. Don't get me wrong though, it shouldn't be about a bunch of mundane guys running around with sticks and more about magically enchanted armies competing for dominance.

Part C would then be the other end of the spectrum. Think of this as a late age, where heroes are very rare and you really have to rely on large armies. Magic is now common place, so you can make large armies of magic wielders shooting fireballs, flying knights and valkyries, etc. Just go crazy with your imagination here and don't hold back. Perhaps this part can heavily expand on summoning magic, demon pacts, undeads, animals, and of course magical heroes (since they are so rare now). This could also be the chance to really separate the various spell books and factions, make them interesting and varied. Basically your MoM fanatic's wetdream.

With this approach, all three parts will have their own charm. If you only like one type you can play that, and you can switch to another if you get bored. This adds replay value and the game will probably get played to death and back as a result. I wish you guys the best of luck.

I began writing this before there were any replies to the thread, so I apologize if I haven't read any suggestion above me.

One of the thing I would really like in A is a more flexible ability system. And all it would take are more XML tags, as I've suggested in the Elemental Ideas post previously. Tags with conditions, tags with (relatively simple) combat triggers, etc. There's a lot to be done here.

Also, please include the possibility of choosing an ability at level up; you can count on me to flesh out the ability trees if the XMLs are good enough for this.

B should have at least some position/motion dependent events in tactical battles. Zones of control/attacks of opportunity, something like that. Also, tactical battle square-dependent bonus (and not strategic battle-dependent bonus).

In C, you could go fo an AoW-2/Total War inspired line of sight/fortification system (you don't have to copy them, of course, but it's a lot more fun than "+2 to defense if you have a Hedge Wall".

This. And I'm aware I'm being insistent on this point but I really can't understand where things like this come from.

Research to unlock heroes...

Research to unlock dungeons...

Research to make monsters pop...

Research to have soldiers travel in groups...

Research to learn how to raze a city...

I mean, how hard can it be? Just rape the women and burn everything down, I'd guess. How did Attila do? I don't think he asked scholars.

Now, I wouldn't raze cities anyway but I really am baffled by all this and by the fact that most players seem to be ok with what "research" means in Elemental  .  Seriously, what happened? I hate to sound so negative but it all seems such a wasted opportunity to me.

OK Here are some of the stuff I would like to see .  This is from my Post Here: https://forums.elementalgame.com/394749 

Im just going to hit some points on it, Read from the sorce post..  

I was really dispointed in the sovereign customization... I was looking forwad to making Elemental Themed Sovereigns ...

A: 

Sovereign,Advantages

Spell Knowledge lets you start with some  spells from that element.   

Elemental Affinity ,  Acts like one elemental shard of that type: Gain + 1 Mana a turn for each Shard of this type  , Requires base spell book of same type. 

Pure Soul:  Your connection to the world is strong you regenerate one mana per combat turn and one extra mana per turn. 

Cost 10

Sovereigns Bond:  You have a great bond with the land, your bond calls upon  the strength  of the land it self and  you can channel spells to any combat that happens in your domain.  

+ 5 hit points + 5 Essence  +1 Mana Regain 

You are able to cast spells in any combat that happens with in your domain. 

If you out of your territory you suffer -5 hit points  -5 Essence, Lose the Mana Regain bonus and can no longer channel spells to distant combats. 

Cost 20

Mana Control:  Caster uses 20% less mana to cast spells.  

Cost 5     ( dose not stack With any other  Mana Control skills) 

Fast caster - Spells take 50% less Ap to cast 

5 points can not take Slow Caster 

Sovereign,Disadvantages

Elemental Weakness ,  Take 10% more damage form this Elemental Type,  Get  50% of the shard bonus for this Elemental Shards  Get .5 mana Per shard of this type: 

Poor Mana Control:  Caster uses 25% more mana to cast spells.  

Cost:-5     ( dose not stack With any other  Mana Control skills) 

Slow Caster - Spells take 50% More Ap to cast 
-5 points can not take Fast Caster 

Poor Concentration : You Control of spells is not perfect when rushed , Tactical Spells do -10% less damage.. 

-3 points  Can not take War Caster

Tongue Tied:  25% more expensive  equipment  25%more for hiring champions  - chance for Marriage acceptance. 

-3 points can not take Silver Tongue

Poor: Start with 25 Gold Less  (Can only take one Start Money Trait) 

Cost : -1 (Can only take one Start Money Trait)

Customization - Champions - Sovereigns - Skills 

Would Like to have  a Skill Tree: Set form to pick from at Creation: 

Such as:   Skill picks at every 2 Levels: 2,4,6,8,10,12,14,16,18,20,...ect...

Skills unlock at certain Levels, you get to pick one every so many levels. 

Most skills require the previous one in that skill family

Warrior Ethos: You are a natural born warrior, Skills in combat come naturally to you. 

Skills: 

Level 1: acquired  at Lvl 2 

Combat Stances, Block, Heavy Strike, Pain Tolerance, Defense Training, Attack Training, Enemy Weakness Humanoid, Fent  

Level 2: acquired at Lvl 8

Improved Combat Stances, Block and Counter, Crippling Strike, Improved Pain Tolerance, Imporved Defense Training, Imporved Attack Training, Enemy Weakness Beast, Impoved Fent

Level 3: acquired at Lvl 16 

Advanced Combat Stances,  Preemptive Strike, Devastaing Strike,  Advanced Pain Tolerance, Advanced Defense Training, Advanced Attack Training, Enemy Weakness Magical, Advanced Fent 

Level 4: acquired at Lvl 24 

Legendary Combat Stances,  Preemptive Strike Block and Counter, Legendary Strike, Legendary Pain Tolerance,  Legendary Defense Training,  Legendary Attack Training, Legendary Enemy Weekness, Legendary Fent

https://forums.elementalgame.com/394749 <--- Check here if You want to read about each skill about half way down the post. 

Factions -  Really need more to make them feel more unique 

Ancient Maps: These Maps have been handed down the generations  ( shows entire map and the resources at the start of the game) 

Cost: 15 

Ancient Archives XXXXtech:   Start with level 2 in this tech.  (XXXTech is any tech tree) 

Cost:5

Stunted Advancement XXXXtech:  Start at Level -1 in this tech. 

Cost - 3

Good Eyes:  All units, city's have + 1 sight range 

Cost: 3

Poor Eye sight: All units, city's have -1 sight range: 

Cost:-3

Subterranean: Your race survived by sheltering underground during the cataclysm:  +25 Def for defenders in your towns, + 5 Hits . After 10 turns huts and houses are moved underground allowing you to build over them.   

Cost: 10 

B or C:  

I would like to see Ships get more development:  Say a base type and let us add stuff to them,   Better sails,  Ballista, Catapults, Or Archers  Have each size get more # of Weapons.   So a Schooner could only have only one weapon, while a Warship can carry six catapults. 

Schooner : Fast small armed  scout:    Can cary one Unit(up to a squad) 

Not sure on cost:

Transport: Carries Units 

Brigantine: An armed warship mounts 3x weapons can carry 4 units 

Warship: Heavy warship: Mounts 6x weapons can carry 6 units 

Merchant Ship : Acts like a caravan has to have a harbor at each city But with 4x the bonus ( since it dose not make roads) 

Flying Units---  

Ok So we have dragons.... that cant fly..... What the hell......  Are the wings for cooling off and not flight? 

Would like to see 

Pegasus  ... 

Wyvern 

Griffons 

ect...

Plz...... Lol wanted mounted Archers on flying horses >.> 

To add on to my earlier idea about the early/middle/late age thing here:

Early age (part A), could have the resource system now, where the big focus is on discovering and claiming resources and have it drive your kingdom/empire. It is a system that encourages exploration, and fits the adventuring theme.

Middle age (part B ), should shift away a bit by making wild resources rarer or produce less (they are running dry) and by having more buildings that generate straight income. Like a farm that generates +1 food, and better buildings that produce mats/iron/crystal/tech/arcane that can be build in all cities. You can use the increased availability of magic to explain these improvements. A simple tax system can be used to generate Gildar. This more stabilized economy will help people plan out their strategy more, as they can always depend on set incomes. This is needed when we start shifting away from heroes and into a more normal unit based system. Any resources you find will just be a nice extra, but not completely needed. Along with this, you should probably implementing a maintenance system to control empire size (say corruption). You could also add more civil heroes with bad combat stats (administrator/farmer/miner) to help manage cities, thus explaining the rarity of combat heroes (less adventurers, more administrators).

Late age (part C), is again the other end of the spectrum. Resources are really scarce now (all exploited) and you really have to build everything. Basically your economy is ran entirely through city construction. You choose how to build your cities, and what to build in them. This allows players to develop their kingdom/empire the way they want to without worrying about whether they will find that resource node. Ideally, the cities should be much more specialized for this. Have an academic city (tech bonus on level) be able to build large research centers, commercial cities (Gildar bonus) be able to build banks, etc. Although I'd love it if this kind of system was also present in some form in part B. You can, again, go wild with this. For example: Level 3+ Dungeon (monster spawn option) might be buried under ground, Level 5 Magic cities might be floating in the sky and can only be taken over by flying units... like I said, go nuts and don't hold back.

Again, a little for everyone.

Hmm.  I can't figure out how to edit my reply.  me = board newb.  That first sentence after the Frogboy quote SHOULD be part of the quote itself.  Must have made a boo-boo.  Anyway, it occurred to me after posting this, that perhaps the initial IN-HOUSE plan was what Kryo states it to be, but what Frogboy wrote on the forums about how "2nd exp. will be free to customers [y]" just a couple days ago doesn't quite sync up with what he's saying in this thread.