Ilindil

Join Date 08/2010

[Suggestion] Champions

I have an idea about making champions (or kings family) a bit more imported.

Every tactical battle with hero, involved on wrong side, end with his/her death. I think it is not wise. Champions are too valuable to just kill them.

My idea is to do it this way:

After each battle there are a dice roll if champion survive or not (could be just 0-1 or allow -hp, so if he/she got less then -10hp can survive battle). Then player can choose as Kingdom to:
a) demand tribute for champion (especially for kings family)
kill him for his crimes
c) interrogate him (to reveal enemy cities or gold amount)
d) bribe to join you`re faction (every champion can have loyalty value depending from race and time spend with faction)
e) seduce to join you`re faction
f) lock in high tower in you`re city and keep him/her as trading card in negotiations

for Empire:
a), , f) would be the same
c) torture him
d) torture to join you`re faction
e) kill and rise as undead champion

This opens a large area of ideas. Champions kidnapping, fast free champion quests...

I thought also about surrender option in tactical battle with option to pay for your troops.

(sorry for my bad writing language... i had several years brake from writing )

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Can anyone share his thoughts about my idea? (It is working all the time in my mind )

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I think when fighting monsters death aught be the expectation. But when fighting another faction most of our notable units should be taken as POW's / slaves (depending if your empire or kingdom).

Those POW's or slaves can then be used or traded. I also think that mundane units also should be captured and made into slaves, Certainly their equipment aught be captured and melted down for it's metal or sold for some of it's value.

'ell back in the bad old days cleaning up after war was a big part of the economic activity. Even the teeth of the dead where collected and sold for dentures. As it stands in Elemental you kiss 1000's of gilder goodbye when your troops die and there is no way to reclaim even a tiny fraction of that.

What I want to know is why you can find items and gold at ancient battle fields, but recent ones contain nothing of value??

Robbie Price.

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Champions should be allowed to flee from the battle field after their army loses 75% of its strength.

Example: Army of 400 points is reduced to 100 points. At this point in time their champions can attempt to flee the battlefield by reaching the edge of the battlefield.

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The idea of surrendering/retreating/etc., and not just dying, has merit. Unit morale is already present in the game and could be used for this.

Non-fatal outcomes for champs does open up a lot of possibilities as you mention -- ransoming, quests to free (not just freeing one's own champs but freeing a third parties' champs or especially its' royals from a captor to gain a big diplomacy bonus with the third party), bargaining chips in diplomacy, etc. This would be especially useful with enemy royal family members.

I would caution against a 'torture' option, as it could affect the game's rating and saleability.

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Random was pretty common in feudal Europe, it'd make a fun game mechanic to be able to ransom champions once their armies have been defeated or to execute them.

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Quoting Nick-Danger,

reply 4

It is a good idea! But for this champions special abilities must be in. Imagine champion who is some sort of assassin/spy with abilities to silent kill enemy champion or kidnap royal kids

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Quoting Ilindil,

reply 6

It is a good idea! But for this champions special abilities must be in. Imagine champion who is some sort of assassin/spy with abilities to silent kill enemy champion or kidnap royal kids

Special abilities for champions is a great idea. There's been a few threads about that in the past. A search will show you some of them. If you want, add your ideas to those threads, or here, and hopefully adding your voice will help get this added.

And your writing is pretty good! Better even than some native english speakers I know.

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ya'll are aware that champions already have the option of retreat...right?

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I like the idea that Champions might be hardy warriors that can be nursed back to health after a defeat, and then be sold for ransom.

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Quoting thisisretarded,

reply 8

ya'll are aware that champions already have the option of retreat...right?

But retreat and surrender are quite different things.

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@ilindil - not that your statement isn't true BUT it had nothing to do with what i was saying....

Quoting ,

quoting post

Every tactical battle with hero, involved on wrong side, end with his/her death. I think it is not wise. Champions are too valuable to just kill them.

what i was saying was that the op is just flat out wrong and no one had thought to mention that fact.

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I certainly like the idea of capturing an enemy hero and holding them for ransom. I always liked that in Mount and Blade and HATED how they'd always die in Total War.

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On a related note:

The way I see Champions is that they are 'Battleships' while normal units are 'swarms of fighters'.

A champion should be a massive (or just really strong) unit that can take a lot of punishment without losing a lot of power/utility during the course of combat. During combat it could be weakened and captures (knocked out and taken captive) or have it's engines/weapons disabled (just knocked out). After combat you would repair it, and get it back ready for another engagement.

A swarm of fighters is far less valuable, they attack in droves (just like squadrons of units), deal damage individually, and can get taken out one by one - making the squadron weaker pretty fast. After combat the squadron can get replenished with new fighters, and different squadrons can be combined to form a new one.

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The idea of your champions not always being killed, but instead taken prisoner for some sort of ransom/exchange is rather interesting. It adds yet another layer of depth to the risk of using champions, maybe they'll add something like this when they do the champion revamp. It should also certainly be an option for the royal families within the game, and perhaps if you have held onto a prisoner long enough, you can change their disposition towards your kingdom/empire and have them join you.

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i do like the idea of ransoming champions (big money if you catch a princess!).

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Quoting thisisretarded,

reply 15

(big money if you catch a princess!).

Big money, maybe, but you also have to deal with the stream of ogres, plumbers, etc. coming to save her.

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Quoting malekith,

reply 16

Quoting thisisretarded, reply 15(big money if you catch a princess!).

Big money, maybe, but you also have to deal with the stream of ogres, plumbers, etc. coming to save her.

Hello, my name is Inigo Montoya. You captured my Princess. Prepare to die.

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Hello, my name is Inigo Montoya. You captured my Princess. Prepare to die.

look out 6 fingered man, Nicingio Montoya is after you...

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I like the basic idea- it plays well into elemental's flavor. Might be somewhat difficult to implement (don't know.) but it would make sense if battle had more of a tangible effect on the world. It would also help long term adventuring prospects if players were actively generating quests. Rescue the princess, salvage the ruins of a razed/earthquaked/etc. city, explore battlegrounds. I feel the results of a champion losing in battle against a player should be consistent, (possibly different based on empire/kingdom) but randomly getting bad rolls just feels bad. It would be nice if, after winning a hard fought war, you weren't cripplingly weaker than your peaceful rivals who spent the time powering up, while the warring factions razed eachother's cities, and getting your champions back, and being able to salvage some of the resources from lost cities and armies would go a good distance to that effect.

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Worthwhile idea. Ransoms would work really well. You could even do the purchase in the diplomacy screen once you have the tech that allows you to purchase the other nations champions.

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I will add this new idea to my first champions thread.
https://forums.elementalgame.com/398778

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DsRaider

Join Date 11/2008

+70

Ransom is an awesome idea, it would add so much too the game, especially if you could try to rescue them.

I'd also like their stuff. A well equipped champion is wearing like 1000 gold on him

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