Enough With the Potshots » Forum Post by Jharii

I fail to see how saying "this game will be good when it's finished" is a pot shot? Grow some thicker skin and don't take things offensively. One of the great things about Stardock is that they are a company who can appreciate criticism, even if their fans cannot.

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People are allowed to criticize a game they like but think needs work Jharii, frankly Stardock does not need wild unquestioning fanboys as much as they need people willign to be honest.

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Quoting tillachan2k9,

reply 2

People are allowed to criticize a game they like but think needs work Jharii, frankly Stardock does not need wild unquestioning fanboys as much as they need people willign to be honest.

Honesty? yes. Working with them as they improve the game that has some legitimate issues? Yes.

Hyperbole, and general ill-manners? No. These are human beings working long hours to improve the game, and help players with legitimate issues. The latter is unproductive, and will not get you what you want, nor will it encourage the human beings on the other end of those posts to continue to communicate with the player base.

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I disagree. Just because someone has a different opinion, and expresses it, does not make it "absurd and childish". There is absolutely nothing wrong with saying "this game should have never been released". If one person says it repeatedly and in every thread, then inform a mod, because that is trollish behavior. But whine threads about disagreements are beyond childish.

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I think what he's trying to say is, we understand these points, but there are still a ton of threads dropping that are just reiterating the same three points over and over again. I agree. no one is really adding anything new, but just making an entire thread to say "I agree that the game is unfinished/great/will be great when finished". It's rather tiresome that half the front page of the forum is clogged up with these.

You are entitled to your opinion, but post it as a comment in one of the old threads, don't make a whole new one.

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Quoting Sythion,

reply 1

I fail to see how saying "this game will be good when it's finished" is a pot shot? Grow some thicker skin and don't take things offensively. One of the great things about Stardock is that they are a company who can appreciate criticism, even if their fans cannot.

Thin skin is not one of my problems. People know exactly what they are trying to stir up by expressing that the game is in some way "not finished." That is using direct terminology, and is completely a matter of opinion, not a criticism, and is only being used to try to make reference to the previous drama.

If you are saying that all these comments are innocently made without an intention of slighting Stardock, then you are simply choosing to be ignorant. These comments are all over the place, and offer no constructive criticism, merely that commentary. It's unnecessary.

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I think what he's trying to say is, we understand these points, but there are still a ton of threads dropping that are just reiterating the same three points over and over again. I agree. no one is really adding anything new, but just making an entire thread to say "I agree that the game is unfinished/great/will be great when finished". It's rather tiresome that half the front page of the forum is clogged up with these.

You are entitled to your opinion, but post it as a comment in one of the old threads, don't make a whole new one.

Essentially, yes. Get over it. Stop beating the dead horse. Insert cliche "we get it" statement here.

Let's move forward from this, regardless of our opinions on whether the game is finished or not, particularly since that point is completely irrelevant at this point and time, particularly in this forum.

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Quoting Spyndel,

reply 3

Quoting tillachan2k9, reply 2People are allowed to criticize a game they like but think needs work Jharii, frankly Stardock does not need wild unquestioning fanboys as much as they need people willign to be honest.
Honesty? yes. Working with them as they improve the game that has some legitimate issues? Yes.

Hyperbole, and general ill-manners? No. These are human beings working long hours to improve the game, and help players with legitimate issues. The latter is unproductive, and will not get you what you want, nor will it encourage the human beings on the other end of those posts to continue to communicate with the player base.

The worst hyperbole and ill manners I have run into here have come from the fanboys not the critics.

They routinely assert that critics should "shut up" like the OP has suggested here since all criticism is a "potshot", that we don't own the game, we are lying about what we encounter if we do own the game, we are paid agents of EA or somesuch, or that we haven't learned how to play the game.

My other favorite is the guys who simply state that the game was ready on launch day and refuse to even address anyone's issues or concerns. Awesome.

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I believe his point is that it's not what people are saying, but how people are saying it.

In general, I tend to agree that civility and good manners do go a long way. Especially when providing honest criticism of a game that I for one cetainly think has lots of room to grow and improve.

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Agree with OP. Forum is flooding with ''OMG what went wrong'' threads.

Contribute to the already started discussions on how to improve the game.

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Quoting Jharii,

reply 6

Thin skin is not one of my problems. People know exactly what they are trying to stir up by expressing that the game is in some way "not finished."

Yes. They are trying to stir people to their honest oppinions of the game. Whether or not they slight Stardock in the attempt does not matter in the slightest.

The way you've worded this shows quite clearly that your frustration isn't with useless clatter, it's because you feel like you owe it to Stardock to defend them. In reality, it could hurt them.

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Quoting greywar,

reply 8

The worst hyperbole and ill manners I have run into here have come from the fanboys not the critics.

They routinely assert that critics should "shut up" like the OP has suggested here since all criticism is a "potshot", that we don't own the game, we are lying about what we encounter if we do own the game, we are paid agents of EA or somesuch, or that we haven't learned how to play the game.

My other favorite is the guys who simply state that the game was ready on launch day and refuse to even address anyone's issues or concerns. Awesome.

I never stated anywhere to "shut up" or to not express your displeasure or be critical of the game.

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Quoting greywar,

reply 8

Quoting Spyndel,
reply 3

Quoting tillachan2k9, reply 2People are allowed to criticize a game they like but think needs work Jharii, frankly Stardock does not need wild unquestioning fanboys as much as they need people willign to be honest.
Honesty? yes. Working with them as they improve the game that has some legitimate issues? Yes.

Hyperbole, and general ill-manners? No. These are human beings working long hours to improve the game, and help players with legitimate issues. The latter is unproductive, and will not get you what you want, nor will it encourage the human beings on the other end of those posts to continue to communicate with the player base.

The worst hyperbole and ill manners I have run into here have come from the fanboys not the critics.

They routinely assert that critics should "shut up" like the OP has suggested here since all criticism is a "potshot", that we don't own the game, we are lying about what we encounter if we do own the game, we are paid agents of EA or somesuch, or that we haven't learned how to play the game.

My other favorite is the guys who simply state that the game was ready on launch day and refuse to even address anyone's issues or concerns. Awesome.

You are one of the worst for starting throwing it out there in every thread...not constrctive or helpful...its bs. Do you think saying the same things over and over gain is helpful? its being an ass.

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Yes. They are trying to stir people to their honest oppinions of the game. Whether or not they slight Stardock in the attempt does not matter in the slightest.

The way you've worded this shows quite clearly that your frustration isn't with useless clatter, it's because you feel like you owe it to Stardock to defend them. In reality, it could hurt them.

it stirs nothing except flames and hostility from both sides of this coin. My point was made in my original post. And I feel no need to defend Stardock. I want Elemental to succeed because its vision is superb, regardless of the developer. Whether it lives up to or it or not does not at all get furthered by antagonists that have nothing to offer the forums except pitchforks and torches.

If you cannot appreciate the olive branch or try to understand the varying opinions, then it starts becoming obvious to me what you wish your time spent on this forum to consist of.

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My other favorite is the guys who simply state that the game was ready on launch day and refuse to even address anyone's issues or concerns. Awesome.

Those guys are troll from the opposite side of the fence.

Everyone knows the game has issues. But it's annoying when the same people are coming into threads that are regular discussions or issue reports and start spouting how crappy or unfinished or unready the game is without contributing anything even remotely useful to the report or discussion.

People who buy the game certainly have the right to offer criticism, but "This game sucks" is not criticism. "This game needs these changes to be good/fun" is criticism. and is readily accepted and discussed. There are very few actual "fanboys" on these boards. Offering criticism does not make one a troll any more than liking what we have now make one a fanboy. But badgering SD in every possible thread about how terrible the game is does make one a troll, and refusing to see that the game has faults and insisting it's perfect does make one a fanboy. Of these, there are many more trolls than fanboys.

+1

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Quoting Sythion,

reply 11

Quoting Jharii,
reply 6

Thin skin is not one of my problems. People know exactly what they are trying to stir up by expressing that the game is in some way "not finished."

Yes. They are trying to stir people to their honest oppinions of the game. Whether or not they slight Stardock in the attempt does not matter in the slightest.

The way you've worded this shows quite clearly that your frustration isn't with useless clatter, it's because you feel like you owe it to Stardock to defend them. In reality, it could hurt them.

So saying the same things over and over again and saying it should not have been released is good for them? I mean say it once, you got it out...your not wrong...but over and over ad nuseum....is stupid.

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People who buy the game certainly have the right to offer criticism, but "This game sucks" is not criticism. "This game needs these changes to be good/fun" is criticism. and is readily accepted and discussed. There are very few actual "fanboys" on these boards. Offering criticism does not make one a troll any more than liking what we have now make one a fanboy. But badgering SD in every possible thread about how terrible the game is makes one a troll, and refusing to see that the game has faults and insisting it's perfect makes one a fanboy. Of these, there are many more trolls than fanboys.

Exactly! +1 for you!

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Quoting ,

quoting post

... a "this game should have never been released" on Stardock.

Let me put it as simple as I can: we are exercising the second article of the gamers bill of right promoted by Stardock itself:

Gamers shall have the right to demand that games be released in a finished state.

Why do you have problem with it?

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it's not childish at all. some are just bitching and not being constructive, but many are putting forth many valid points

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People posting to comlpain about people posting complaints always fills me with a sense of irony

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Quoting MxM111,

reply 18

quoting post
... a "this game should have never been released" on Stardock.

Let me put it as simple as I can: we are exercising the second article of the gamers bill of right promoted by Stardock itself:

Gamers shall have the right to demand that games be released in a finished state.

Why do you have problem with it?

Because it does not give you a right to be a dick. Maybe being on the internet makes you feel intitled to spout it, but I mean its fine to bring it up, but do we need excessive vomit in everythread?

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