Rock Paper Shotgun: Stardock Rescind Own Bill Of Rights?

By on August 25, 2010 8:59:27 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

abomination5

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There is a new article up on Rock, Paper, Shotgun noting that the gamer's bill of rights is no longer found on its website. I'm not sure if this has anything to do with what some would call a premature release of Elemental but they seem to think so.

 

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2010/08/25/stardock-rescind-own-bill-of-rights/

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August 25, 2010 9:12:57 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Well, its not a "finished" product, as the development continues, but its pretty enjoyable as is and full of future potential.

I think in the end the game will improve at a much faster rate with people playing it and making reports and suggestions than it would with equal time of internal production alone. Plus we have a game to play now rather than later, right?

I didn't read the article, but I've made cheeky comments about the bill of rights to my mates so I think I get the idea. 

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August 25, 2010 9:13:26 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Clearly they took it down thinking that nobody would remember it and they would make HUGE profits! They would have gotten away with if it wasn't for those damn kids!

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August 25, 2010 9:15:28 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

oh my... This could be very bad for the future of the game, and Stardock as a studio...

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August 25, 2010 9:22:01 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

it's ridicolous this campaign against Stardock. There are a lot of software house that release beta game and fix it after month. Stardock has already a day0, as you knew. All has been clear for the release of Elemental :war of magic. Have you seen the last fix at 5 am?This is stardock. 

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August 25, 2010 9:28:36 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Darrosquall,
it's ridicolous this campaign against Stardock. There are a lot of software house that release beta game and fix it after month. Stardock has already a day0, as you knew. All has been clear for the release of Elemental :war of magic. Have you seen the last fix at 5 am?This is stardock. 

When a studio does a PR campaign with a bill of rights that prominently features the idea that games should be released in a "finished" state, then releases a game with major crash bugs and all the other problems we saw, along with no multiplayer for a *week* after release... what do they expect other then to be called on it?

This "campaign" is nothing more then dissatisfied customers and reviewers doing their jobs.

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August 25, 2010 9:29:05 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

 

Quoting Aseir,
oh my... This could be very bad for the future of the game, and Stardock as a studio...

 

It is none the less amusing to consider there may be a connection between the two

Perhaps the bill is just down for maintenetance?

 

I like Stardock but that doesn't mean they are perfect, or should be so.

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August 25, 2010 9:29:05 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

"is that it’s broken to the point of being unplayable"

It is BS statements like that one that assure me that site is F'ed beyond repair.

I am and have been playing E:WoM and having a good time doing so.

One can only shake ones head in deep despair really.

Let me guess. Their motto is "Let's fuck up a good thing just because we have nothing better to do!"

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August 25, 2010 9:29:52 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

The amount of PR and damage control that is going on around this game is surprising me. I reserved that kind of behavior for big dev houses and publishers. Stardock has always been very open in general and open to taking criticism. Pulling down your own code of conduct amidst a rocky release is not prudent at all, from a PR standpoint.

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August 25, 2010 9:37:55 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

There are a lot of software house that release beta game and fix it after month.

This is the same line of argueing as a kid saying:"But the other kids have thrown stones at the dog too, mummy!"

 

This could be very bad for the future of the game, and Stardock as a studio...

Maybe it will scare away more potential customers, and make people think about pre-ordering another game. But the bigger part of the fanbase seems to accept that they're doing their best to improve the product as quickly as possible. And keep their hope up that it will become what they had expected. So I guess they'll survive...

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August 25, 2010 9:40:26 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Let me guess. Their motto is "Let's fuck up a good thing just because we have nothing better to do!"

No, they are all just hired by EA to tear down a company that is opposing their DRM schemes.

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August 25, 2010 9:42:20 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Part of that thread gets seriously hate filled. Wow. I never thought I'd see the day where people would complain that much over a game, but especially not a Stardock game. It's blatantly obvious half the people making comments there don't know sh!t about Elemental or they'd know just how Kick Ass this game is.

See chief, that's what happens when you go posting on those sites who's main posting populations are a bunch of 13 year olds who are only posting there because their WoW accounts got temp banned and they've got no-one to Rage at for the moment. I thought RockPaperShotgun was better than that. Guess I was wrong. You gotta stay off those jack ass sites, man.

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August 25, 2010 9:47:49 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Umm do they mean this?

http://www.gamersbillofrights.com/

Looks like it's still there to me.

The game is totally playable bar a few system specific bugs (Which are to be expected, you can't test for every possible type of computer build). Only a small number of people are experiencing them to.

Now we may have expected more, in terms of content/features... But that doesn't make the game incomplete in and of itself.

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August 25, 2010 9:48:43 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Serious I hardly understand the uprage, it is not like tehy where kept uninformed about the whole game till its release. Yes someone can amybe rightful complain about still existing Bugs.

Than agains tehre are lot of useless complains about Bugs that are directly fixed at the start and not anymore existent. I mean someone reading through the all accessable Developerblogs and all the information that is accessable,  can hardly be surprised about the current game state or?

Special the complains about the pre rlease state of the game feels a bit ridiculus. Well I guess it is human nature.

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August 25, 2010 9:49:44 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting John_Hughes,

"is that it’s broken to the point of being unplayable"

It is BS statements like that one that assure me that site is F'ed beyond repair.

I am and have been playing E:WoM and having a good time doing so.

One can only shake ones head in deep despair really.

Let me guess. Their motto is "Let's fuck up a good thing just because we have nothing better to do!"
You know how people with problems are always the louder. I have only had a couple of CTD so far and perfomance has been fine (still haven't tried latest patch). Maybe it has been unplayable but I'm so retarded that I didn't notice it. Or maybe those kind of sentences sohuld include a "for many people" at the end.

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August 25, 2010 9:50:47 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Gah, not a good way to start the morning

http://www.gamersbillofrights.com/

It's still around   But yeah, I need to surf the webs to see what major issues are out there. GC2 had a bug where it would overheat video cards due to the lack of a framerate cap...we dodged that bullet this time, but it looks like there were others waiting behind it

edti: astrobia beat be to the link

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August 25, 2010 9:51:13 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

You know, I see what some of you are saying about this. But things aren't always that easy. Like it has been posted on here before, they had a choice of releasing it Aug 24, or sometime in February next year. I agree, things are a little weird here and there, but at least for me, the game has been solid now since the updates. I can alt tab without a problem. I played for about 3 or 4 hours straight before bed last night. It's not just a case of "we're not ready, push it back a month". They don't have that luxury. They already settled on the date, and IMHO I think some "shit" hit the fan in the last few days. It happens. What good is whining about it going to do? It's quite obvious they are busting their asses to get things to a better state.

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August 25, 2010 9:52:00 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

This finished/unfinished complaining is pointless, though. Everyone has a different idea of what it means. To some people, not having MP for a week is unfinished. But there are plenty of games that don't have MP and aren't considered unfinished. Therefore, to me, MP is not a "core" feature and it being missing for a week doesn't mean the game is "unfinished". The crashes are worse, but, it also happens to a lot of games. SD can't quite test every possible configuration (particularly old ones). A few crashes seem to have carried over from beta, but most of them are the result of just more people with different hardware trying to play the game.

In the end, they've been staying up very late into the night/very early into the morning working on fixes, they deserve some credit for that. Yes the game still needs quite a bit of work, but the release date was locked far in advance and they're not big enough to have much pull with retailers to move it inch by inch. At least they're trying hard to do the necessary fixes, instead of putting it out and taking a vacation for a month. Give them credit where it's due. I don't think any of them will tell you that they don't wish they had an extra month or two before it hit retail, but they didn't and it's not like setting up retail distribution is done with a flick of a finger.

 

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August 25, 2010 9:53:36 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Not surprisingly, E:WoM played just fine for me right out of the box (or Impulse download). Almost all software on the planet is released with some bugs in it and a long wish-list from the developers. The good thing about SD is, they then start work on that wish-list.

I do have sympathy for some of the nay-sayers though, it does seem like there were some fairly big problems for some people for the first few days. 

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August 25, 2010 9:55:04 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

RPS is a good site, and one slightly dodgy post doesn't change that. They're reflecting the mood around the release (whether or not that mood is justified is neither here nor there), and there are people in the comments arguing against the idea that the game is broken or unfinished.

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August 25, 2010 9:57:52 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

My guess is that Stardock typoed something, or some other legitimate mistake on that.  Taking it down, if intentional, is too stupid for it to have been done intentionally, especially after a release of a game that has been fairly criticized for being rushed.  This game did need 3 more months of beta, maybe more.  It's enjoyable in its present state, but releasing it early to me, has hurt SD's reputation among general fans (not us so much).  The criticism Stardock is taking- to me it's valid.  I don't agree with the more shrill criticisms, but there are things worth being critical about- and I'm saying this as a fan who is satisfied with the state the game is in right now.  I mean, if the game wasn't rushed- we'd still be in beta, so I'm not worse off (and am likely better off actually from the rushing).

 

While personally, I'm satisfied- if this has been a non-SD game, from a company that does not have SD's reputation for improving things- I know I'd be a lot more critical.  I do have concerns that what is happening will hurt SD's reputation, which is easy to lose but hard as hell to regain (things aren't fair when it comes to reputation).

 

That said, one good thing about Stardock, is that every time they mostly finish a game's lifecycle (never say never with SD, they updated GalCiv1 a couple years ago)- they go over things, point out their own mistakes, and learn from it.  I think one of the lessons that will be learning from Elemental, is that a rushed game is always rushed, a great game is great forever (this will likely end up both)  Another lesson is never got complacent that a game is finished- a lot of problems that were fixed, came from us betas getting the gold release.  If they had given us gold when gold was out, I think it's quite possible more things would have ended up fixed today.

 

 

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August 25, 2010 9:58:04 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

You know, any game where the company promises to keep updating will never be 'finished'.  I might be labeled as a fanboy, but I completely and wholeheartedly disagree with "broken to the point of being unplayable".  I don't see the game as being 'not finished' or 'filled with bugs'.  I downloaded the pre-release for beta testers, and started playing the campaign.  I encountered no bugs.  (Which is not to say that there are no bugs, simply that I didn't have problems playing.)

EDIT:  I guess that's not quite true.  It did lock up on me once, after playing for a few hours.

 

There is definitely room for improvement, and they are working on it.  The gameplay & ui tips added to the campaign popups are really nice, for those who aren't familiar with the interface already.

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August 25, 2010 9:58:11 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

If it's true then they shouldn't have ever done a "bill of rights." There are always bugs, usually very serious ones.

Starcraft II released with broken sound for some people, missions with endings that wouldn't proc, and issues where people had problems accessing some single player features. Have you seen the ending credits for starcraft II? There are like 500 people that worked on the game. 

Last year it was revealed that 180,000 bugs had been fixed or were in a state of being fixed in WoW, the biggest cash cow in the history of gaming. And a lot of those were fixed "next Tuesday." 

And yet here's an indie company of not-so-many-people that's missing several rounds of sleep to please the fanbase.

I realize some players have problems with crashes, but a few people are just bitching because they have nothing better to do. I follow a few games that were a hell of a lot more broken than this and that took weeks or months to get fixed in proper order. This game released yesterday and already there has been a patch and a hotfix. And then I see people raging about the state of the game on launch

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August 25, 2010 9:59:24 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I had a good time playing the game last night, but after about 2 hours and progressing a couple hundred turns in the game, I absolutely could not proceed forward.  It would crash every couple turns, the entire game came to a crawl, and even playing the game in the cloth map mode still didn't help much.

So basically so far the game has tons of potential, was fun overall, and I am generally happy with my purchase.  With that said the game (at least my copy) was absolutely broken.  I did try the day-0 patch very briefly this morning and it seemed to improve things, though don't know by how much until I get home later.

 

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August 25, 2010 10:02:51 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

The day any game I buy, never requires, nor gets a Patch, (ain't never gonna happen btw) then I will post a glowing diatribe about that game company. Until then there is no such thing as a "totally" finished game. 

At least we know SD will carry forward, unlike some others, until we all forget what 1.0(1.05 already fcol) used to be like. LOL

Yes, I am a FB of SD. Had to pick someone right?

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August 25, 2010 10:03:12 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting John_Hughes,

"is that it’s broken to the point of being unplayable"

It is BS statements like that one that assure me that site is F'ed beyond repair.

I am and have been playing E:WoM and having a good time doing so.

Actually to me E:WoM is almost unplayable, so I really can't see this statement as a bullshit.

 

 

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