Giving minor factions teeth

By on July 5, 2010 3:51:58 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001
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In Beta 3 the minor factions were in but not really because the odds of them being spawned were miniscule. That’s something I’ve been working on over the holiday. 

But minor factions shouldn’t be just fancy goodie huts. Instead, they have many of the same abilities as a major faction except that they don’t expand.  Not being able to expand, however, is a tough thing.  In GalCiv, minor races were pretty much at the mercy of the player.

Of course, GalCiv didn’t have magic.

In Elemental, the minor factions get a guardian unit that represents their tribe. Secondly, they get a special unit producing improvement. If you capture it, you can train units of that type. 

In the long-run, we hope to let players use their diplomatic abilities to trade for the special creatures they provide.

 

Example of a faction’s guardian unit:

image

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July 5, 2010 3:53:45 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

n the long-run, we hope to let players use their diplomatic abilities to trade for the special creatures they prov

i like the idea maybe they can teach you some special research or something too

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July 5, 2010 3:55:51 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Sounds awesome, can't wait to encounter some! 

Nice looking Drake there!

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July 5, 2010 3:57:00 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Really cool... C'mon Beta 3A I'm waiting for you...

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July 5, 2010 3:58:54 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Judging by that last screenshot, you meant teeth literally rather than figuratively.  Minor factions should probably vary in strength a bit, from push-overs to really tough enemies worth avoiding.  That variability in creeps and militia in both Warcraft III and Sins of a Solar Empire worked quite well to add diversity.

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July 5, 2010 4:01:23 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Excellent! I'm glad they will be more threatening than GCII

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July 5, 2010 4:01:39 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting ,
In Elemental, the minor factions get a guardian unit that represents their tribe. Secondly, they get a special unit producing improvement. If you capture it, you can train units of that type. 


In the long-run, we hope to let players use their diplomatic abilities to trade for the special creatures they provide.

What kinds of units are these?

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July 5, 2010 4:11:13 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

That sounds really awesome.

I don't see the logic behind not letting them expand though. Aren't they capable of making Pioneers? Granted, perhaps limit them to only building a new settlement very slowly and only on land that's already been reclaimed magically by a Sovereign. I think you should give them the ability to spread out if they get lucky enough. This way they present a "speed bump" to the player as well and as you say aren't "just fancy goodie huts".

They would be like a faction Without a Sovereign, which would limit their growth capability anyway and make sense for them to only expand slowly. Through Diplomacy make it possible for the player to "Bribe" them to attack other factions or even other "minor" factions. This would open up their uses in diplomacy as well.

Just a thought.

Still, it sounds awesome just as you describe.

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July 5, 2010 4:24:26 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I don't see the logic behind not letting them expand though.

Major factions expand, minor factions stay at home. That the only way to different majors (those who want to to influence the world) from minors.

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July 5, 2010 4:27:02 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Peace Phoenix,

Major factions expand, minor factions stay at home. That the only way to different majors (those who want to to influence the world) from minors.

I'd say Not having a Sovereign would be a Major Difference. Making them not expand isn't the "Only" way to differentiate between the two

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July 5, 2010 4:42:37 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Those special units will doom the minors, since players like shinies, and rare shinies= must kill for it.

Diplomacy might work, but usually those minors have good land also

 

Saw Raven's idea: just not having a sovereign would be enough to make them a minor I believe- he's got the right idea.  I'd prefer that to the current  idea you guys have.  Maybe have them require a tech to expand that the AI does not put heavy weight towards?


Honestly, without expansion, I can't see any scenario that's plausible/fun keeping them from being anything more then an overgrown goodie hut.  I also know that I would turn them off if the current setup is kept.

 

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July 5, 2010 4:45:59 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I agree - they should be able to expand if at a slower pace than the normal AI.

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July 5, 2010 4:46:11 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Sounds awesome. Diverse gameplay = win.

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July 5, 2010 5:02:03 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

The described behavior sounds perfectly fine, but I do believe that they'd be more *interesting* if they tried to expand at some rate (although slower than the major factions).

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July 5, 2010 5:03:02 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Yeah, they should be able to expand, but like raven said, without a sovereign they wouldn't be able to offer a significant threat.

They should evolve slowly or not be able to research atall (I think they could have X techs and only get newer techs when trading with a major Faction)

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July 5, 2010 5:09:40 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I would also like for them to have a small chance for expansion. Let the world be fluid!!

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July 5, 2010 5:34:36 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I liked the Snathi (?) evil space squirrels in GalCiv 2.  As squirrels, they should be right at home in those big forests     Please?

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July 5, 2010 6:07:29 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

i think that they should expand as well, BUT only by taking settlements.  this way they can't go out and build on their own but they can build up a powerbase by taking other cities and expand on them.  or maybe make it so that they can't build any improvements, but will target specific settlements that have what they need(food, materials etc.)

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July 5, 2010 6:07:46 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Why don't you have decent bonuses for engaging in diplomacy with the minor factions, rather than just destroying them and taking their unique unit?  For example, if you could get a better deal if you worked with them rather than overpower them, this would provide an excellent incentive to treat them more than just a speed-bump.

I think it could be great being able to initiate diplomacy with minor factions.  You might want to consider some mechanic similar to City States in Civ 5.    What do you think of 1. diplomacy with minor factions, and 2. "City States"-type functionality? 

Best regards,
Steven. 

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July 5, 2010 6:16:28 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

This is excellent news. I'd not forbid minors from expanding but to make them more distinct from big ones, that expansion should be a low priority for them (they may have a champion and stuff, but they should lack Revive Land spell plus just be barely surviving in their patch of land... which makes them minor).

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July 5, 2010 6:40:13 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I demand your pledge of allegiance, minor! You will serve me well as a buffer state when the war comes. Now return to your pathetic hovel before my mood changes.

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July 5, 2010 7:02:54 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I also think that limiting the minor's food input would be a good way of limiting their  growth.

harpo

 

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July 5, 2010 7:17:58 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Cool! I hope they get a hand full of unique things for every minor!

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July 5, 2010 7:27:12 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting TCores,
I demand your pledge of allegiance, minor! You will serve me well as a buffer state when the war comes. Now return to your pathetic hovel before my mood changes.

 

...And pray none of my relatives needs a vacation home in the future...

 

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July 5, 2010 7:33:15 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

 

Frogboy,

Could we do something like "Origin faction" in Elemental multi player?

The factions with the spells / units that being highly customized and developed will be saved

and the next time he play the multiplayer games with that same faction he may have slightly advantage for some abilities pre-learn (something similar like Home City concept in AOE 3)

 

This will encourage players to stick to their own race, establish his own Identity or preference in factions

and every 3 months in Stardock server, we have a series of Empire vs Kingdom wars with player on both sides

 

I think is kind of fun, and we may announce that "the 3rd world cataclysm is won by Kingdom " and all participating Kingdom players may won a XXX special unit designed by stardock (example)

 

Of course, for other random maps or quick games we may disable the "origin faction" concept

 

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July 5, 2010 7:35:42 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Great.Reminds me a bit like Birth of the Federation minors.

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