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[.803][performance] Zooming unresponsive to scroll wheel

June 18, 2010 10:53:40 PM from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

All versions of the beta, including the current one, do not zoom smoothly with my mouse wheel.  The mouse, a Microsoft Natural Wireless Laser Mouse 6000, scrolls smoothly with the wheel in all other programs.

Also, the map works smoothly for all other functions such a panning and rotation.  The zoom is jerky whether in 3d or cloth map mode.  Slow rotation of the mouse wheel produces no effect.  A rapid spin of the wheel will usually result in a small increment in zoom level.

I tried loading Elemental on my computer at work today and zoom seems to work fine there.  I don't really have any idea what this might be related to, so I'm not sure what other information to give you to track this down.  Has anyone else had this issue?

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wjt47
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Reply #1 June 21, 2010 3:56:23 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

MS Natural Wireless Laser Mouse 6000, same problem. barely zooms in or out with multiple spins of the wheel. 

Works fine with standard mouse. 

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LikeTheWhirlwind
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Reply #2 June 21, 2010 8:52:02 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

If you haven't already, can you uncheck the zoom to cursor option in the options menu and let me know if zooming is still unresponsive?

Thanks in advance,

 

-LTW.

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Reply #3 June 21, 2010 10:43:27 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Checking or unchecking the zoom to cursor box does not change the issue.  While testing, though, I noticed more details about the issue.

Turning the mouse scroll wheel at a slow or normal rate for any distance results in no zoom movement.  A rapid spin of the mouse scroll wheel will result in a sudden jump in the zoom level.

My wife uses the same mouse on her computer (which is otherwise different as far as motherboard, graphics card, etc.); I'll try to install Elemental there later and report back about whether I get the same behavior.

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Reply #4 June 21, 2010 12:29:00 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Loaded Elemental onto my wife's computer.  She has the same mouse and the same problem with zooming in Elemental.

Might this have something to do with the free-spinning, as opposed to incremental-click, nature of the mouse wheel in this mouse?

I'm currently using the generic Vista HID-compliant mouse driver, which has working fine for all other programs.  I'll check on MS specific drivers for this mouse and see if they make any difference.

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Reply #5 June 21, 2010 5:17:26 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Loading the MS intellipoint drivers specific to the mouse does not resolve the issue.

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wjt47
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Reply #6 June 21, 2010 5:50:52 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

This mouse scrolls normally running Elemental in Windows XP but not in Windows 7 Ultimate. Matched the Elemental and Intellipoint settings between systems, but to no effect.

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Reply #7 June 21, 2010 6:15:24 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Possibly a drivers issue. Same problem (no scroll) in Dragon Age Origins, Windows 7 Ultimate. Standard mouse works fine.

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Reply #8 June 21, 2010 9:30:30 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Posting a quote from someone else posting on one of the threads on the Dragon Age Origins forums complaining about this issue:

Previous versions of Windows always had a fixed delta for mouse wheel changes, so lots of programmers hard-coded the assumption that the delta would be a particular value (120). The later versions of Windows and Intellipoint software have begun using different delta values, which means programs that incorrectly assume the fixed delta don't work properly. Try scrolling in winamp's playlist and you'll find there is the exact same sort of issue.
There are workarounds but they're not exactly something I'd call a long-term fix as this problem will only get worse as more mice drivers take advantage of the new functionality.

1) You can try and find a different mouse in Intellipoint that happens to restore the wheel deltas.

2) You can install ONLY the mouse driver, not the Intellipoint software, as it's the latter that enables the new functionality in Microsoft mice (extract the Intellipoint installer and point Windows at the driver in there, you'll get a correct mouse driver but no extra functions beyond two buttons & scroll).

That said, the real fix lies squarely in the hands of the developers of the software that has the problem, in this case Bioware. I really hope they address it. I'd hate to find that in a couple of years, more people have more complex mice and Dragon Age ceases to scroll properly.

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Reply #9 June 21, 2010 11:29:31 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I found that setting your "Connected Device" (within Mouse Properties) to Wireless Laser Mouse 8000 gives you a very smooth zoom and preserves the functionality of all your buttons. It works with Dragon Age too!

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Hazmael
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Reply #10 June 22, 2010 9:50:06 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I have the exact same problem with my wireless mouse (MS WirelessLaser Mouse 5000). The option checkbox in Elemental doesn't change this behavior.

I can't find how to change this setting in the mouse properties in Win 7. Can you give us more details?

Thanks for your help

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Reply #11 June 23, 2010 1:17:24 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I'm assuming that you need to download Microsoft Intellipoint. This should install the Microsoft Mouse icon on your desktop.

When you open the icon you get a Mouse Properties window. Under the picture of your mouse you have the option to change your Connected Device.

I found that the Wireless Laser Mouse 8000 worked best for me.

I also changed the Wheel Button to Middle-Click. This allows me to rotate the view.

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Reply #12 June 23, 2010 8:09:20 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Confirmed that using the Microsoft Intellipoint driver for the Wireless Laser Mouse 8000 is a functional workaround for this issue.  However, it makes my scrolling jerky in other programs and although the scrolling is functional and responsive in Elemental, it still has a clicky-jerky feel.

Hopefully a patch soon will change the mouse-wheel delta assumptions and fix the issue.

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Reply #13 June 24, 2010 12:14:14 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I have the same problem with a Microsoft Wireless Optical Mouse 2.0 and Window 7 (64bit). The scrolling worked fine in XP on the same machine.

The odd thing is that the scrolling works fine when my cursor is over a city in elemental, but if it is over anything else in elemental it has the problem described in this thread.

I haven't tried the fix mentioned here, I will try it out and let you know if that helps.

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Reply #14 June 25, 2010 10:25:34 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Issue remains unchanged for version .804.

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Reply #15 June 26, 2010 11:36:20 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Just to let you know that the Wireless Laser Mouse 8000 setting worked for me too

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Reply #16 July 2, 2010 10:19:02 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Issue persists for .805.

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Reply #17 July 6, 2010 6:23:48 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I'm using the Microsoft Optical mouse (though it's not wireless) without an issue.

I'll put it on the list of things to look at. Not sure we can really do much about a driver issue though.

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Reply #18 July 7, 2010 1:12:42 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I believe I am experiencing this same issue with my Logitech V450 Nano Cordless Laser Mouse for Notebooks.

Rotating the map and moving the map is as smooth as silk, but when I zoom using the scroll wheel on my mouse it is very choppy.  Seems like it is skipping between every 3 levels of zoom rather than zooming smoothly.

UPDATE - I just tried zooming using the trackpad on my laptop and sure enough it zooms perfectly smoothly so it does appear that this is definitely some sort of compatibility issues between certain mouse scroll wheels and the game.  Hope this gets fixed before the full release.  I love my cordless mouse!

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Reply #19 July 7, 2010 1:19:54 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting Frogboy,
reply 17
I'm using the Microsoft Optical mouse (though it's not wireless) without an issue.

I'll put it on the list of things to look at. Not sure we can really do much about a driver issue though.

 

Thanks so much for the reply, Frogboy.  It's not a driver issue, I believe; using the wrong drivers is just a work-around.  It's related to post #8 above, and only effects mice that have a scroll wheel that spins freely, instead of in regimented "clicks" and only in programs that hard-code what delta to expect from the mouse wheel to register that its turning.  If you want to test it, you need a mouse that has a free-spinning scroll wheel.

Sins of a Solar Empire does not have this issue, if that's any help.

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Reply #20 July 7, 2010 1:23:19 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting Spitz,
reply 19

Quoting Frogboy, reply 17I'm using the Microsoft Optical mouse (though it's not wireless) without an issue.

I'll put it on the list of things to look at. Not sure we can really do much about a driver issue though.

 

Thanks so much for the reply, Frogboy.  It's not a driver issue, I believe; using the wrong drivers is just a work-around.  It's related to post #8 above, and only effects mice that have a scroll wheel that spins freely, instead of in regimented "clicks" and only in programs that hard-code what delta to expect from the mouse wheel to register that its turning.  If you want to test it, you need a mouse that has a free-spinning scroll wheel.

Sins of a Solar Empire does not have this issue, if that's any help.

I do not believe this issue only occurs with free-spinning wheels.  I am using a scroll wheel with defined clicks and my zooming seems to skip between zoom levels while if I use my laptop touchpad to zoom it is perfectly smooth.

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Reply #21 July 7, 2010 2:06:23 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I use a Wireless Laser Mouse 6000 and also suffer from this scrolling issue.

Anno 1404 also suffers from the same problem and i believe Dragon Age does too, although i no longer have that installed to confirm. No other game that i own suffers from this issue (i've just checked; Supreme Commander 1 and 2, Sacred 2, Distant Worlds and they work fine)

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Reply #22 July 7, 2010 2:08:36 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Right, and for me, when I use the mouse wheel to zoom on Civ IV it zooms silky smooth.  It seems like Elemental is missing some algorithm that converts the clicky, digital nature of the zoom wheel into a smooth silky zoom.  The game is interpreting the motion of clicky mouse wheels too literally.

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Reply #23 July 7, 2010 2:43:15 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting Spitz,
reply 19

Quoting Frogboy, reply 17I'm using the Microsoft Optical mouse (though it's not wireless) without an issue.

I'll put it on the list of things to look at. Not sure we can really do much about a driver issue though.

 

Thanks so much for the reply, Frogboy.  It's not a driver issue, I believe; using the wrong drivers is just a work-around.  It's related to post #8 above, and only effects mice that have a scroll wheel that spins freely, instead of in regimented "clicks" and only in programs that hard-code what delta to expect from the mouse wheel to register that its turning.  If you want to test it, you need a mouse that has a free-spinning scroll wheel.

Sins of a Solar Empire does not have this issue, if that's any help.

 

That is highly helpful. thanks!

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Reply #24 July 17, 2010 9:07:42 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Still an active issue as of 3B.

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Reply #25 July 17, 2010 9:13:09 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I have the same issue in the versions since .802.

I have an older MS optical scroll-wheel mouse with audible clicks when using the scroll wheel.

Earlier versions were more responsive to the mouse wheel.

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