Dragons?

Where do they fit into the game?

By on April 12, 2010 5:35:29 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

AXidenTAL

Join Date 07/2008
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There's a dragon on the cover and the Lore section of the website mentioned them as their own thing, but I was wondering how exactly dragons will fit into the world in this game. Can you control them, or are they always wild NPCs or something?

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April 12, 2010 5:43:17 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Dragons will be POWERFUL NPCs that you might occasionally be able to recruit. I certainly hope that recruiting Dragons is something along the lines of Adventuring techs, and can be done by any kind of Sovereign, as opposed to requiring 50 charisma or something ...

But either way, yes ... theoretically you would need to research advanced Beast taming, which unlocks Dragon Language ... then research Dragon language, and perhaps solve a quest or two for the Dragon ... and it will become yours. Something like that.

In a given map, there will be maybe 3-5 dragons?? If that many? You can only control 1 dragon at any given time. You cannot attempt to make contact with a second dragon if you already have control over one. However, I suppose you could still ATTACK other dragons if you own one dragon. Use your dragon + army to kill other dragons before your opponents are able to attempt recruiting them.

Heck, I hope there is a tab for Dragon Lineage ... and every 50-100 turns the dragon lays one egg, and you can keep track of your Dragon's family (although not control them). The dragon's family would be NPC's that perhaps occasionally give quests, or attack invading rival armies. Usually stay in the Dragon's roost high in the mountains though. Perhaps take 100 turns for a Dragon Hatchling to mature into a young Dragon (about half stats of Parent). Then another 100 turns to mature into an Adult Dragon (same stats as Parent) ... meanwhile most dragons start at age 200-300 (from turn 1) ... and around age 400-500 (300 turns into the game or so) mature into an elder dragon ... with increased stats than their "Adult" form.

Anyways, Dragons will be extremely powerful, and it will be possible to include 1 Dragon within your armies.

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April 12, 2010 6:20:44 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Will Dragons differ in type depending on stuff like elements, factions, locations etc...?

 

Sounds pretty cool though.

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April 12, 2010 10:16:16 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting AXidenTAL,
Will Dragons differ in type depending on stuff like elements, factions, locations etc...?

Probably. There are already different dragon artworks:

http://www.elementalgame.com/images/artwork/Ele_CreatureConcept_Sheet3.jpg

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April 12, 2010 11:41:03 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Hopefully it's as Tasunke said i like that system. and yes i hope for aligned dragons like fire wind water death etc.

 

Earth dragons should be Big with no wings and underground based lol.

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April 12, 2010 11:48:17 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

  AXidenTAL, you should check out the new forum mod page for Elemental.  It has at least one mod that will be developed with lots dragons.  When this game ships there also might be alot more options available than are currently available in the current beta. Really this is just a building the game phase, getting some basic gameplay mechanics working and getting it stable enough that the developers and testers can further analyze the gameplay.  For being a work in progress its already very interesting.  I haven't seen any dragons in the current beta.  However, the developer's love dragons just as much as you(guessing).  In one game I tried to help a pregnant wolf and she died leaving me a litter of pups.  I didn't see them and I don't think they are even represented yet.  Still, like Tasunke says "dragon lays one egg" would be very fun. 

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April 12, 2010 12:28:08 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Magicke,
  AXidenTAL, you should check out the new forum mod page for Elemental.  It has at least one mod that will be developed with lots dragons.  When this game ships there also might be alot more options available than are currently available in the current beta. Really this is just a building the game phase, getting some basic gameplay mechanics working and getting it stable enough that the developers and testers can further analyze the gameplay.  For being a work in progress its already very interesting.  I haven't seen any dragons in the current beta.  However, the developer's love dragons just as much as you(guessing).  In one game I tried to help a pregnant wolf and she died leaving me a litter of pups.  I didn't see them and I don't think they are even represented yet.  Still, like Tasunke says "dragon lays one egg" would be very fun. 

List of Elemental Mods

by kyogre12
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Actually when I took that route I ended up with two wolves following as part of my hero's unit

 

Edit: And also we MUST be able to ride Dragons with some tech at some point.

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April 12, 2010 1:06:21 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I am not sure that Dragon's should be ridden in this particular game, however if they were to be ridden, probably a powerful, expensive spell from a high end magic tech (Universal Will, Strength of Will). Probably cost one shard of each element (Fire, Ice, Earth, Air). It should allow you to mount/dismount your dragon, as well as perhaps combat bonuses vs other dragons ... maybe even an ability to capture opponent dragons (at least temporarily).

Riding the Dragon should be stronger than the Sum of its parts .... perhaps All your stacks combine to add together (total attack, defense, HP, essence, attack speed) ... and you get to use two spells per turn. (spells include dragon special abilities). Something epic like that.

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April 12, 2010 6:04:34 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Riding a dragon should be something more 'Special' I think a quest which gets you a dragon egg which only spawns randomly some games will have it some won't and you have to perform a quest to get it *Like to prove to an elder dragon your responsibile enough for the egg orto steal it etc.* And then you can raise it and over time it gives you the ability to ride it.

 

Or at least control it.

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April 13, 2010 2:04:25 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Hmm seems like we should be getting some good options. I like the idea of the quests leading to being able to ride/control dragons.

 

I do hope that we get like elemental dragons or something... Maybe be able to affiliate a dragon with an element if you have it as an egg or something?

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April 13, 2010 4:02:33 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Anything beyond art appreciation from images already known and that they are uber powerful beings (strongest thing out there until the Sovereign reaches top levels) that no one will be able to produce but only recruit (and that if in your game you recruit ONE it'll be like the second coming of Elvis), is pure speculation and/or wishful thinking. Canon wise at least.

Edit: Because all the other threads worked fine while the Egads Dragon banned me from this.

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April 13, 2010 1:21:34 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I think it would be cool, that after what Tasunke said about Tech/Languages/Questing etc, that you do the Dragon a solid favor, and in return, it owes you one. Collectible  whenever you ask.

That way, when a BIG Battle Royale breaks out, the enemy seems to be getting the upper hand and is laughing at your "puny little pissant army" you call in the "Dragon Marker"

Now that would be a great "OMG! Retreat! Retreat! OMG! Retreat! Retreat!"Get the hell outta my way peasant!" thing to hear an enemy Commander screaming like a little girl moment.

One your enemy would not soon forget eh...

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April 13, 2010 3:22:22 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Spending a "dragon marker" sounds MUCH more fun than having one simply join your forces permanently. Fits much better with the notion that the mature ones in Elemental verge on being a force of nature in their own right.

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April 13, 2010 4:52:47 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting AXidenTAL,
Will Dragons differ in type depending on stuff like elements, factions, locations etc...?

 

Sounds pretty cool though.

 

There will be many diverse types for dragons in Elemental! Here's a brief list:

Dragon steak

Dragon stew

Dragon pie

Roasted dragon

Brined dragon

BBQ'd dragon

Dragon 'n ketchup

Dragon 'n chips

Dragon sausage

Dragon scrapple

Dragon bacon

Dragon 'n onions

Stuffed dragon

Dragon-stuffed buns

Marinated dragon

Dragon tartar

Finally, dragon soap!

 

Mmmm... dragon soap...

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April 13, 2010 7:20:40 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Dragon Markers sound cool. Well, so far we have three major themes of acceptable dragon usage (theoretically during gameplay)

1. Raise your Dragon

2. Recruit a Dragon

3. Gain a Dragon (IOU) Marker

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April 13, 2010 9:32:03 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I think we should have all 3 maybe exclude recruiting.

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April 13, 2010 9:47:19 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Sethfc,
I think we should have all 3 maybe exclude recruiting.

Yes indeed for the 'both' excluding recruiting. Ditching the recruited dragon idea but retaining both dragon IOUs/markers and the idea of dragon eggs/hatchlings (as in Song Ice and Fire) sounds far better than having the average late-game sovereign wondering whether she had kept up with the Joneses in terms of recruiting adolescent or middle-aged dragons.

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April 13, 2010 9:56:20 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Yep i say Recruiting Out.

 

But Hatching yes.

 

Also one final Idea.

 

A Summoned dragon as part of a special spell requiring a special item or quest to be performed this spell summons a dragon.However it can only be performed once and consumes said item or becomes unavailable after use.

 

Also the dragon may or may not be controllable allowing there to be a wildcard a desperate mage could use.

*Examples would be two powerful empires clashing and one SOV trying to save his own hide by summoning a dragon on the enemy army the problem is if it wins then turns around on him he loses and if the enemy wins then he still loses the difference...He hopes the dragon will keep going in their direction*

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April 13, 2010 10:24:24 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Definitely plenty of Wild-Cards ... that are 75% hard to get, 120% effective, yet 100% wild and uncontrollable.

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April 14, 2010 2:31:43 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I like these ideas.

 

Dragon marker sounds cool as it would indeed make for some epic moments... I don't understand though how raising a dragon without being able to recruit it as such would work? Would it give you an IOU and leave and grow up, or would it just be yours?

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April 14, 2010 10:37:46 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Raising one i would think of as a quest reward like a randomly spawning incredibly rare as in you might get it or you might not only one per game or less *sometimes one per 2 or 3 games* and the quest be a difficult but rewarding one where you can choose to either A Fight a dragon and take eggs from it's lair *you get 2 eggs plus gold if you succeed but you have to fight an elder dragon...victory is really not an option* you can try and steal it but once again easy way to die.

 

Or you can perform a quest or several quests for the dragon and it entrusts an egg to you the reasons dependent on the SOV and his/her actions.

 

I guess that'd make sense as the best way to incorporate raising a dragon or getting IOU's.

 

My only other idea expands on the previous one by saying what if instead of an egg you get a young teenaged dragon *just out of hatchling phase* and the reason why it's been given to you is because its parent thinks it could learn more of the world through traveling and fighting and since it's at the age it must leave its nest and make its own lair.

 

makes sense to me sort of.

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April 15, 2010 2:03:58 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting AXidenTAL,
... I don't understand though how raising a dragon without being able to recruit it as such would work? Would it give you an IOU and leave and grow up, or would it just be yours?

I've only just recently finished book to of A Song of Ice and Fire, so I have no idea how quickly the hatchling dragons will grow in that story world (no spoilers, please). I'd actually like to see that sort of thing limited to something of the status item role that they play in A Clash of Kings, and reserve serious dragon action in combat for the Marker/IOU model.

A major summon-bind ritual sounds like the riskiest way to score one of those markers. Diplomacy could be hardest (probably dependent on being insanely strong or having a long past history of 'pro-dragon' behavior) but least risky. Quests would take much more direct work than diplomacy but probably be pretty safe for the sov in question, at least for the Save My Egg, Find My Lost Mate types.

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April 15, 2010 8:04:26 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Agreeable...But raising ne also seems to me to be something useful...it seems to me that within 100 years *by several dynestic generations* a dragon would be old enough to fight lesser threats and to be more or less intimidating which is all you really need it for unless you have a major threat and if you got one early enough by late game you'd have a fully grown dragon. Enhanced maybe even with your essence and power or it could empower you vice versa.

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April 15, 2010 9:15:05 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I, personally, am not opposed by having a Dragon being a permanent part of your army. I mean seriously ... whats the point of dragons if you can't own one at some time?

Personally I am against being able to ride a dragon, however I personally would want to be able to fight with my very own dragon, and have a dragon leading my armies.

One ... hatchling Dragon. Once you get the egg it takes 5 turns to hatch, and every year gains +1 HP, and every 5 years gains +1 Attack and Defense.

At 50 years of age, the hatchling "upgrades" to an Adolescent. This is a change of art, gains Flight and Dragon Breath abilities, gains +20 HP, and +5 attack, +5 defense. +30% movement speed (other than flying) And +1 combat speed. (for a total of 80 HP, 20 attack, 20 defense, 2 combat speed)

At 150 years of age, Adolescent "upgrades" to a Mature dragon with +50 HP, +5 attack, +5 defense, and +2 combat speed (and +20% movement) ... for a total of 230 HP, 45 attack, 45 defense, and 4 combat speed. (at this point attack and defense stop increasing)

at 500 years of age, Mature "upgrades" to an Ancient Dragon. At this point, the growing stops. It gets its final art change ... gets "Ultimate Dragons Breath", and "Unending flight", as well as +100 HP, +10 attack, +10 defense and +100 magic defense, and +50% magic resistance. For a grand total of 680 HP, 55 attack, 55 defense, 4 combat speed, 100 magic defense, 50 magic resistance, Unending Flight, and Ultimate Dragons Breath.

 

In addition, Dragons can level up, but it takes 5 times as much Exp, and they only get 5 points per level. (+5 HP, +0.5 attack, or +0.5 combat speed, ect)

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April 15, 2010 9:48:45 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Tasunke,
One ... hatchling Dragon. Once you get the egg it takes 5 turns to hatch, and every year gains +1 HP, and every 5 years gains +1 Attack and Defense.

At 50 years of age, the hatchling "upgrades" to an Adolescent. This is a change of art, gains Flight and Dragon Breath abilities, gains +20 HP, and +5 attack, +5 defense. +30% movement speed (other than flying) And +1 combat speed. (for a total of 80 HP, 20 attack, 20 defense, 2 combat speed)

At 150 years of age, Adolescent "upgrades" to a Mature dragon with +50 HP, +5 attack, +5 defense, and +2 combat speed (and +20% movement) ... for a total of 230 HP, 45 attack, 45 defense, and 4 combat speed. (at this point attack and defense stop increasing)

at 500 years of age, Mature "upgrades" to an Ancient Dragon. At this point, the growing stops. It gets its final art change ... gets "Ultimate Dragons Breath", and "Unending flight", as well as +100 HP, +10 attack, +10 defense and +100 magic defense, and +50% magic resistance. For a grand total of 680 HP, 55 attack, 55 defense, 4 combat speed, 100 magic defense, 50 magic resistance, Unending Flight, and Ultimate Dragons Breath.

 

In addition, Dragons can level up, but it takes 5 times as much Exp, and they only get 5 points per level. (+5 HP, +0.5 attack, or +0.5 combat speed, ect)

 

The aging process and some of the statistics seem pretty cool, I'd totally immerse myself in that kindof gameplay. I noticed people mentioned taming, calling, riding and breeding(?) dragons, but one thing I'd like to do is play as a lone Ancient Dragon, much like the lone human sovereign.

 

Nice ideas anywho!

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April 17, 2010 11:03:32 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Yea ... playing as a Lone-Wolf Dragon would definitely be Ideal Mod territory (or even minigame? like playing *Barbarians* in Civ4)

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