A new take on Elite Units

By on December 29, 2009 9:41:16 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Demiansky

Join Date 03/2008
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In most strategy games, elite units generally come from "green" units that start out with low experience and slowly gain levels through combat.  Units attaining elite status can be anything from lowly spearmen to mighty paladins, and in game like Master of Magic, an elite squad of spearmen would be stuck as an elite squad of spearmen.  Granted, in Elemental you will be able to upgrade your units, it's still quite likely that your elite units will end up with pretty much the same gear as many of your green units, because you'll always be equipping and reequipping your units with your best gear.  I fear this may be the route Elemental is going: we'll see peasant boys turned promptly into green-horn death knights or paladins.

So I was thinking that perhaps while your units gain experience and levels in combat, something else happens as well.  Some of your soldiers distinguish themselves in combat and ascend to a higher level of "soldierdom."  After combat when experience is tallied, a certain proportion of your regulars are upgraded to veterans based on that experience gain (their numbers being replaced automatically in the unit they came from).  They would then go into a pool of veterans that can be retrained and re-equipped with better weapons and armor at your capital.  These new veteran units would be a step above your normal units and could use weapons and armor upgrades that your green and regular units would not normally be able to use.  They might also get "bonus training upgrades" that are only privy to elite units.  For instance, your regular soldiers may only be restricted to non-magical weapons and light to medium chain armor.  Your veterans could wear plate mail and flame swords.  Your elite could use magical, reinforced plate armor and swords of flame call.  Some techs might even revolve around specifically equipping non-regular units.  And once your veterans go into combat and succeed, a proportion of them will upgrade to "elite" units as well (perhaps there might even be a super elite tier as well.)  I envision the ratio of your regular, veteran, elite, and super elite units being something to the effect of around 100/25/5/1.  Of course this ratio would be different depending on whether you protect or throw away your elite units in warfare. 

What this does is allow elite units to truly shine, not only because they are stronger, better trained, and have better gear than your regulars, but because they are very difficult to replace.  Not to mention, you won't be seeing thousands of death knights and paladins swarming the battlefield, because it may be a requirement that they must be elite or super elite in order to take the armor, training, and weapons necessary to be a death knight or paladin. 

Decisive battles can be fought in warfare in stead of "tug-of-wars," too.  Normally, if you lose a stack of units (and this is especially true in Total War), you can just crank out rough equivalents with little effort.  With this system though, if you've been cultivating elite units throughout 3 wars and they are thrown away, you won't be replacing them for a very long time and you take a critical blow for the duration of the war.  What's more, you might also be able to gain elite soldiers at a greater rate with special techs, buildings, or spells (in addition to generating some passively in your society by cultivating a warrior/philosopher culture.)

Not to mention there are plenty of interesting quest tie ins: save the temple of Fer'nor from invading monsters and take your choice of a raw 100 veteran or 25 elite soldiers to be trained as you see fit.

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December 29, 2009 10:08:54 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I like this idea a lot demiansky, I know Frogboy has said many times that a handful of the elite more well equipped units will be able to take on hundreds of lesser units but theres no way of demonstrating this sort of thing in game (because you'd always be upgrading, like you said, its a problem in games like these imo)

So i think your idea would solve this problem by allowing units to actually mean something and for us to be more attached to certain units. However, for it to work I think experience would have to be handled on a "unit victory" basis, sorta like X-com. Where units only gain experience from actually killing another unit, rather than just participating in the battle... Is this along of the lines of what you were thinking?

Speaking of X-com, I loved how that game left me feeling immersed in the game world, and how i actually was a little sad when my people fell to the nasty aliens. They became characters in a story, and they actually meant something because they had become these great heroes over time. If Elemental can catch even a fraction of that it will be a hit no doubt. I think immersion is the most important aspect of gaming.

Overall great idea

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December 29, 2009 10:40:15 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I'm confused. I thought the dev plan for "no built-in units" was in part all about enabling players to develop elite units that really stood out in a crowd. What am I missing?

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December 29, 2009 11:17:34 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting GW Swicord,
I'm confused. I thought the dev plan for "no built-in units" was in part all about enabling players to develop elite units that really stood out in a crowd. What am I missing?

It doesn't refer to making elite units, which you can also do with preset unit types, but transforming previous units into elites.  In Master of Magic, one's units grew more experienced as they fought battles, with accompanying stat boosts, but a troop of elite spearmen was still more-or-less useless beyond the early game.  This suggestion allows all elite units to distinguish themselves through retraining, and play a more important role in one's force.

I'm hesitant about restricting so much stuff to war-experienced soldiers.  It sounds like it would make level-grinding play a major role in all one's military, and make it even harder to survive as a predominantly peaceful nation than it generally is in TBS games.  I imagine that upgrading experienced units is already an acceptable system, given how much longer it takes to train anything veteran or above.  It's like spending ten turns to get uber dragon knights instead of fifty.  I don't see why you shouldn't be able to give raw recruits flaming swords; even with a normal system, you're much more liable to lose that investment than you would if you gave them to more experienced troops.

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December 29, 2009 11:26:29 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Maybe I'm not getting something about how upgrades might work (I haven't really messed with the unit design system other than to make decent scouts). I'm also probably making some unconscious assumptions that upgrades will work kind of like they do in GalCiv2, only without the basic framework of hull sizes limiting your options.

And now that Doopliss mentions it, I'm also not fond of the idea of 'forcing' level-grinding into the game by closing off design options with arbitrary unit level boundaries. The game should give Demiansky more or less what he wants, but do it 'organically.'

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December 29, 2009 3:30:36 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting GW Swicord,
Maybe I'm not getting something about how upgrades might work (I haven't really messed with the unit design system other than to make decent scouts). I'm also probably making some unconscious assumptions that upgrades will work kind of like they do in GalCiv2, only without the basic framework of hull sizes limiting your options.

And now that Doopliss mentions it, I'm also not fond of the idea of 'forcing' level-grinding into the game by closing off design options with arbitrary unit level boundaries. The game should give Demiansky more or less what he wants, but do it 'organically.'

The problem I'm trying to remedy is subtle to recognize, but is nonetheless a big problem.  The problem now is that you can spam well geared units and, whenever your elite units wield the same gear as your green units, an elite unit is easily replaced by, say, 2 green units with the same gear.  This was a common problem in Master of Magic with non-hero units.  An elite paladin wasn't all that more powerful than a raw recruit, so throwing away elite units wasn't a very big deal.  I want elite units to be valuable and have a distinct tactical advantage in battles.  I don't want them to be easily substituted.  So I'm proposing that retrained elite soldiers can use better gear or gain improvements to superior gear that low level units wouldn't normally get. 

I also don't see the point about unit grinding.  Heroes will gain levels too, won't they?  Won't they also be subject to level grinding?  My original vision was more along the lines of elite units gaining options in the design menu that green units wouldn't get.  For instance, if all of your normal units could get chain mail, you veterans would have the option of using iron-bands on their chainmail to afford extra armor.

As for Doopliss, I suspect you could incorporate a method into this system where you gain raw elite units without having to go to war.  This could represent recruiting independant adventurers into your military or indentifying individuals in your kingdom who have natural talent.  Gaining elites through warfare may not even yield much of a net gain, considering that many of your elites will be killed.  Also, if you are peacefully inclined, you might be more inclined to get general equivalents to elite units (taming monsters, summoning guardians, etc.)  This would also add a noticeable difference between peaceful nations and aggressive ones, without the peace-lovers being at a military disadvantage.

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December 29, 2009 4:05:23 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Putting it simply: your system is forceful and arbitrary, Demiansky - also, it is not needed. There is already a way of controlling how far your army modernization can go and that's called 'price'. By economical reasons, you will not be able to field vast swathes of superbly equipped peasants, unless you are fond of going bankrupt over and over again. A dragon armor is very expensive and it is nearly impossible to equip all your grunts with it. Even top-notch full-armor is already expensive, making prohibitive to equip all your units with it (they are also not very good for archers, for example). That's a game logic that has been around for ages: more powerful units are more expensive to field and to keep, therefore you might consider equipping only your best units with the best equipment.

Veteran and elite units will naturally arise from battles, after gathering enough experience. These units will not only be generally more powerful but also might acquire new skills. They will be naturally stronger than common units even better equipped. If you throw your money into equipping them with the best, they will truly become feared in the battlefield. There is no need to limit the use of some equipments just for them - it is already the logical choice.

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December 29, 2009 4:07:19 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Since we're supposed to be getting tagged with automatic tech upgrading units, your spearmen aren't just spearmen, but spearmen with whatever tech spears you've researched.  I'd still like to be able to re-equip them, but whatever.

 

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December 29, 2009 4:29:27 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Finneglot,
Putting it simply: your system is forceful and arbitrary, Demiansky - also, it is not needed. There is already a way of controlling how far your army modernization can go and that's called 'price'. By economical reasons, you will not be able to field vast swathes of superbly equipped peasants, unless you are fond of going bankrupt over and over again. A dragon armor is very expensive and it is nearly impossible to equip all your grunts with it. Even top-notch full-armor is already expensive, making prohibitive to equip all your units with it (they are also not very good for archers, for example). That's a game logic that has been around for ages: more powerful units are more expensive to field and to keep, therefore you might consider equipping only your best units with the best equipment.

Veteran and elite units will naturally arise from battles, after gathering enough experience. These units will not only be generally more powerful but also might acquire new skills. They will be naturally stronger than common units even better equipped. If you throw your money into equipping them with the best, they will truly become feared in the battlefield. There is no need to limit the use of some equipments just for them - it is already the logical choice.

Forceful is exactly what is necessary.  In theory you are right, but this balance is never, ever achieved in strategy games.  You are treating unit design like a free market, which works well when an individual has perfect information and is capable of behaving perfectly rational in their own best interest.  Assuming that players will have this, you also must assume that the per capita benefits of fielding non-elite units will match with per capita benefits of fielding elites, which thus is practically never done properly in strategy games with military components.

You make reference to a game logic that has been around "for ages," but I can think of very few games (if any) where training a greater number of inferior units as opposed to very powerful units is a rewarding strategy, unless they are trained in small quantities for fringe roles or "happiness garrisons".  As a result, you end up with homogenious units in each roll which are upgraded with each tech advance.  In Master of Magic, you never built spearmen for your regular army in a city that could build paladins.  In Civilization 4, you never built axmen when you could build macemen.  In Master of Orion 2 and Ascendancy, building smaller ships at anything but the very beginning was almost always foolhardy, and even the AI knew it.  By the way, all of these games have been cited by developers as being inspirations for Elemental.  Just assuming that Elemental will be the one to "get it right" this time and properly balance values just isn't good enough for me.

So yes, forceful is exactly what we need.  I don't want elite units to be spammable, I want them to have strategic roles that can't be easily replaced, and I don't want this feature to be left up to fickle economic theory.

And there are other advantage too.  With formal "tiers" it's much easier to recognize where your, and an enemy's, formidable soldiers are on the battlefield (1-4 chevrons near the unit would be sufficient to denote level). 

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December 29, 2009 6:01:46 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Maybe just have levelled units THAT much better. Like equipment gives +50% advantage for level 5s and up

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December 29, 2009 6:20:17 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Tasunke,
Maybe just have levelled units THAT much better. Like equipment gives +50% advantage for level 5s and up

Something along these lines seems like it might do a better job of doing what Demiansky wants re avoiding 'elite unit spam' while also avoiding weird things like level-based limits on unit equipment.

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December 29, 2009 7:50:03 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

How about command function?  Get high level unit, a regiment commander is born from the bloodshed, perhaps captured enemy standard bearers and such as well.  They could attribute bonuses, use magic items, blah blah blah.

 

Something along the lines of a cross between Total War and Warhammer unit function.

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December 29, 2009 9:11:09 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting psychoak,
How about command function?  Get high level unit, a regiment commander is born from the bloodshed, perhaps captured enemy standard bearers and such as well.  They could attribute bonuses, use magic items, blah blah blah. ...

I've never played the other games you mention, so it sounds to me like you're calling for some kind of unit status between regulars (what we can create in Unit Design mode) and champions (what I suppose we can only get via some yet-to-be-in-the-beta deployment mechanism).

If that's true, I like the idea because I want to see clear distinctions between strong stack-leaders who rose from the ranks and storied heroes who might make WoT's Mat Cauthon look like an unblemished paragon of the officer class.

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December 29, 2009 9:21:31 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting GW Swicord,



Quoting Tasunke,
reply 9
Maybe just have levelled units THAT much better. Like equipment gives +50% advantage for level 5s and up


Something along these lines seems like it might do a better job of doing what Demiansky wants re avoiding 'elite unit spam' while also avoiding weird things like level-based limits on unit equipment.

Yeah, that works, but I just want to make sure that giving flaming swords of uuberness to inexperienced soldiers is uneconomical in most circumstances.  If green units had to "grow into" their weapons to unlock their full potential, that would make more sense.  It makes sense that a soldier with poor combat experience wouldn't be fluently wielding weapons and armor of exceptional power to their full potential.

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December 29, 2009 9:48:20 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Demiansky,



Quoting GW Swicord,
reply 10



Quoting Tasunke,
reply 9
Maybe just have levelled units THAT much better. Like equipment gives +50% advantage for level 5s and up


Something along these lines seems like it might do a better job of doing what Demiansky wants re avoiding 'elite unit spam' while also avoiding weird things like level-based limits on unit equipment.



Yeah, that works, but I just want to make sure that giving flaming swords of uuberness to inexperienced soldiers is uneconomical in most circumstances.  If green units had to "grow into" their weapons to unlock their full potential, that would make more sense.

I don't think units should have to gain experience or in any way "grow into" the ability to use their weapons to full potential. If I can afford to equip an entire 1000-man army with lightning infused mithril swords, I should be able to, without any arbitray level limits or whatever. "Oh, my army is only at 50% efficiency until they all get to level 10... great..."

I like Tasunke's suggestion better, that leveling up makes that unit better, but there aren't any debuffs for not reaching that level.

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December 29, 2009 11:18:36 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

yea, beyond basic ability increases/stat increases that come with level, perhaps a 50% bonus to "equipment stats" every 5 levels or something.

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December 30, 2009 12:23:24 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Goodmorning all,

I would like to suggest that rather then being able to use differnt equipment,  that higher level units can use trained abilities better.

There is no really good reason why somebody should not be able to use a +5 sword, we're trained to accept this by Diablo and Ilk,  but really, a good sword is Easer to use then a poor quality one.  so if anything, leveling up would allow one to use poorer equipment...

However leveling up Does allow you to addapt to situations faster.  So a High level unit can preform special abilities and use special equipment in less ideal situations.


A green unit with a medkit can only use it  when no enemies are nearby and hasn't been attacked for a full 2 rounds,   An elite unit can use the same med kit while laying the beat down on his or her opponent.

So your Eleit units becomes spcial because they can DO things when green units can't

Also whatever system used has to account for armies of size  3, and size 300,000.

 

10,000 greens can 'march' together, and fight like a untrained mob . . . or can be elite and stand thier ground acting as one, and using group skills that turn the unit into killing mashines. using the same equipment.


It's not always waht you have,  often it's how well you use it.... so to speak.

take care

Robbie Price.

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December 30, 2009 12:24:11 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Demiansky,
Forceful is exactly what is necessary.  In theory you are right, but this balance is never, ever achieved in strategy games.  You are treating unit design like a free market, which works well when an individual has perfect information and is capable of behaving perfectly rational in their own best interest.  Assuming that players will have this, you also must assume that the per capita benefits of fielding non-elite units will match with per capita benefits of fielding elites, which thus is practically never done properly in strategy games with military components.
We are definitely going to have to wait for a more fleshed-out demo.  The assumption that you can afford to deck out more than a few units with your best gear is just as unfair as the assumption that you can't.  If Adamantine/Dragonscale/Etc armor is a rarity, and your elites would get significantly more mileage out of them than your grunts (which seems a reasonable assumption, since they're probably going to survive longer), the system should be fine "as is".

Also, consider that the "uberness" of a weapon is relative.  For a fledgeling, early-game kingdom, forged steel equipment could be huge.

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December 30, 2009 8:43:16 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I don't think units should have to gain experience or in any way "grow into" the ability to use their weapons to full potential. If I can afford to equip an entire 1000-man army with lightning infused mithril swords, I should be able to, without any arbitray level limits or whatever. "Oh, my army is only at 50% efficiency until they all get to level 10... great..."

I like Tasunke's suggestion better, that leveling up makes that unit better, but there aren't any debuffs for not reaching that level.

There is literally no difference between both methods.  It's like arguing that the glass is half full instead of half empty.  Both methods achieve the same end of making a weapon less efficient in the hands of a green soldier compared to an elite soldier.  And why is "arbitrary" the word of the hour?  I'm not throwing this feature up for the hell of it--- I'm throwing it up for stability and balance. 

And aside from that, giving your green soldiers lightening swords is still better than mundane swords.  What matters is that certain weapons aren't so powerful that the difference between a green soldier armed with uuber weapons and an elite soldier armed with uuber weapons is slim.  If that's the case, then no one will be using elite, experienced soldiers in tactically meaningful ways.  Creating a feature by which good weapons aren't as good for crappy soldiers as they are for well trained soldiers is a way to guarentee that elite soldiers will always earn special consideration in tactical battles.  They also become something that are very valuable to deploy in strenuous situations, but very painful to lose.  If the afore mentioned margin is too small, than you can simply spam whatever soldiers you need to fill tactical niches, whenever you want, without any long term strategic foresight, and this is what I'm worried about.

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December 30, 2009 8:56:37 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

There is no really good reason why somebody should not be able to use a +5 sword, we're trained to accept this by Diablo and Ilk, but really, a good sword is Easer to use then a poor quality one. so if anything, leveling up would allow one to use poorer equipment...

I agree with you on most posts, but not on this one.  If you hand a green soldier a flaming sword, they aren't going to understand that the heat generated by the sword allows them opportunistic blows on otherwise sturdy joints in the armor, or the ability to melt and smash a faceplate in a helmet.  Likewise, a veteran soldier would understand the subtle unpredictabilities of how opponent moves in battle and how to better deliver those blows with a special weapon. 

All a green soldier would know is how to do is swing it like a regular sword, granted it will do them better than a mundane sword.  Now, yes, if the sword is lighter or better balanced we might expect all soldier types will benefit equally from it, but most weapons I think would work to the contrary against green soldiers.

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December 30, 2009 9:22:25 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

People are people. They should get skills proper to their initial training and as they gain experience, those skills should improve (and unlock new ones if he meets some requirements). Equipment should be able to be changed, veterans or not. Special equipment should be only used proficiently by more seasoned troops though.

The grinding... well, if you want veteran armies, you need to grind. If along the way you get some extra cities or something like that, the better. If normal units could lose experience (never below their initial one when they were recruited) during prolonged periods of no combat even better. And bigger upkeep for them.

Troops should be able to get sent to train anytime so the regular Guard you recruited in the first turns can go to your Misspoint Academy and become Elite after the proper amount of time and training (with some extra cost to upkeep?). Or maybe learn a different set of skills (in addition to the ones he already has).

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December 30, 2009 10:29:17 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Demiansky,

I don't think units should have to gain experience or in any way "grow into" the ability to use their weapons to full potential. If I can afford to equip an entire 1000-man army with lightning infused mithril swords, I should be able to, without any arbitray level limits or whatever. "Oh, my army is only at 50% efficiency until they all get to level 10... great..."

I like Tasunke's suggestion better, that leveling up makes that unit better, but there aren't any debuffs for not reaching that level.


There is literally no difference between both methods.  It's like arguing that the glass is half full instead of half empty.  Both methods achieve the same end of making a weapon less efficient in the hands of a green soldier compared to an elite soldier.  And why is "arbitrary" the word of the hour?  I'm not throwing this feature up for the hell of it--- I'm throwing it up for stability and balance. 

And aside from that, giving your green soldiers lightening swords is still better than mundane swords.  What matters is that certain weapons aren't so powerful that the difference between a green soldier armed with uuber weapons and an elite soldier armed with uuber weapons is slim.  If that's the case, then no one will be using elite, experienced soldiers in tactically meaningful ways.  Creating a feature by which good weapons aren't as good for crappy soldiers as they are for well trained soldiers is a way to guarentee that elite soldiers will always earn special consideration in tactical battles.  They also become something that are very valuable to deploy in strenuous situations, but very painful to lose.  If the afore mentioned margin is too small, than you can simply spam whatever soldiers you need to fill tactical niches, whenever you want, without any long term strategic foresight, and this is what I'm worried about.

No, there is a difference. How likely is it that a player will manage to get every single one of the soldiers comprising their 1000 man army to level 5 or 10 or whatever level is required to "unlock" their weapons' full potential?

And why would you not give your soldiers training with their weapons? "Here, have this awesome sword, but we won't tell you how to use it. Have fun!"

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December 30, 2009 10:59:16 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

After reading some of the posts here, it seems to me restricting equipment to veteran and elite status troops is untenable. But, I'm trying to imagine a green peasant with heavy gothic plate and a greatsword, and it is just not working in my head. More sophisticated weapons should incur... I dunno... a penalty. Although to be fair I think the green peasant wouldn't be good with a shield and spear, either.

Other than that, I don't see why armies shouldn't equip fresh troops with viciously awesome equipment. If an empire just found the Master Sword and only has green troops, why shouldn't it give someone a Master Sword for a last ditch effort?

And why is "arbitrary" the word of the hour?

It's a good word.

 

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December 30, 2009 11:04:23 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Goodmoring,

I agree with you on most posts, but not on this one. If you hand a green soldier a flaming sword, they aren't going to understand that the heat generated by the sword allows them opportunistic blows on otherwise sturdy joints in the armor, or the ability to melt and smash a faceplate in a helmet. Likewise, a veteran soldier would understand the subtle unpredictabilities of how opponent moves in battle and how to better deliver those blows with a special weapon.

All a green soldier would know is how to do is swing it like a regular sword, granted it will do them better than a mundane sword. Now, yes, if the sword is lighter or better balanced we might expect all soldier types will benefit equally from it, but most weapons I think would work to the contrary against green soldiers.


Actually we agree here.

I'm saying that the low level guy can still pick it up, still swing it around, and still recieve some bonus for it because it's a better sword.  But the sword also would have unlockable abilities,  So it's a +3 fire sword, with +1 for units with experance > X, +1 again for units with level larger then Y, and  'armour melting' for units of level >Z. 

Even to a green unit it's the best sword to give if you can, because it's still +3, and you won't have any +4 swords (+4 to green units that is)

No, there is a difference. How likely is it that a player will manage to get every single one of the soldiers comprising their 1000 man army to level 5 or 10 or whatever level is required to "unlock" their weapons' full potential?

And why would you not give your soldiers training with their weapons? "Here, have this awesome sword, but we won't tell you how to use it. Have fun!"


Here is a big problem,  If the game is going to have armies of size 10 and armies of size 10,000.  units will nee to be build accordingly.  
Having units build one at a time, equiped one at a time, and leveling individually, is GREAT for teams of at max 10, but clickfest of death for 10,000. 

I discuss this problem at http://forums.elementalgame.com/368984.

But in short, that 1000 wo/man army  will level as one, be equiped as one.  Be one unit with 1000 figgures, rather then 1000 units with matching equipment.


Robbie Price

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December 30, 2009 12:25:35 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Demiansky,
I agree with you on most posts, but not on this one.  If you hand a green soldier a flaming sword, they aren't going to understand that the heat generated by the sword allows them opportunistic blows on otherwise sturdy joints in the armor, or the ability to melt and smash a faceplate in a helmet.  Likewise, a veteran soldier would understand the subtle unpredictabilities of how opponent moves in battle and how to better deliver those blows with a special weapon. 
You're likely not handing a green soldier a flaming sword, you're training a green soldier with a flaming sword, and all the nuances thereof.  If you're sending in anything above militia, I can't imagine being incompetent with any equipment you were trained with.  A fresh firesword user would probably have a greater understanding of his weapon than an experienced halberdier you just handed it to.

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December 30, 2009 2:02:04 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Why not just apply a multiplier to the weapon's abilities according to the unit's level? Say, 20% per level-up:

Green (rank 0) troops with +5 flaming sword: +5 damage.

Regular (rank 1) troops with +5 flaming sword: +6 damage.

Elite (rank 5) troops with +5 flaming sword: +10 damage.

BTW, for those worried about the grind, why not take another page from MoM: troops gained experience just sitting in a garrison. 1 point per turn, no matter what. Fielding your troops would allow you to level them up much faster, but if you built up a sizeable army and just sat on it defensively, you weren't totally pooched in the late game.

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