Maybe you should also mention that FfH 2 is free, is a mod and thus not a professional product. So the expectations are different than if, say, I bought FfH2. As it is? Play FfH2. The graphics aren't as good. but the gameplay is much better at making sense. Also, it's free. Come back to Elemental in 6 months.
[quote]if 12 men with powerful enough weapons gets the jump and attacks first then sure I can see them dropping a dragon in this game, after all we all know what they say about "death of a thousand cuts" right?[/quote]That's not how it is at the moment, and that's not the issue. You're talking about 12 elite guys. Sure, I'm okay with 12 elite guys killing a dragon (with a few losses, of course). That's the point of elite troops. You don't need attack/defense stacking for that! You jus
[quote who="Akitoscorpio" reply="12" id="2738356"] one man, no mater how well armed he is, is going to walk up to a company of 12 men and be anything but stomped into the floor while his opponents wonder why the lunatic thought he could win a 12 to 1 battle. [/quote] One heavily armored knight against 12 peasants with wooden spears and padded armor? He's going to crush them like bugs. At the very least he'll take a few of them to hell with him.<
[quote who="Seboss" reply="5" id="2738261"]Admittedly, the diplomatic tree is pretty weak compared to the others. [/quote]It gives you access to some recruitable monsters, but they're not worth the hassle. And it's like, what, 3 techs? But what if, instead of deleting the diplomacy tree, Stardock filled it with other interesting techs somewhat related to diplomacy, speeches, manipulating and convincing other peoples to share your views? Do you recall those nice lil' diplomats ba
[quote who="TheProgress" reply="9" id="2738293"]based on my experience with the game, at minimum, defense is stacking (it looked like attack was stacking too, but I could be wrong). How do I know defense was stacking? I had a unit (single unit) with 20 attack. My target was a group of 4 enemies, with a combined defense of 32. When I attacked, I missed completely - if defense is not stacking then I should have hit at least one of the opposing enemies.[/quote]And here we have the main problem:
[quote who="jmccrea" reply="4" id="2738258"]Try talkiing to the Spartans about defense not stacking...or even the Romans...Heck even the modern military could have stackable defense, just due to they way we communicate back and forth. Defense stacking makes perfect sense when you think of them as a group...not individuals. Thats why they are so deadly...they attack together, rather than just as individuals. Not to mention, you got my back, I got yours. Thus your defens
[quote]Whenever they attack an enemy, four rolls should be made against the enemies defense, i.e. four times 1-10 in damage, instead of the one time 1-40 they have now. [/quote] That's how it is already. Frogboy's words. That doesn't change the fundamental problem: the damage should be compared to defense individually for each unit; not just once for the whole unit. And defense stacks, which is ridiculous.
An initiative system is much needed, yes.
[quote who="MumbaCraft" reply="82" id="2737856"] If it was squad of peasant with pitchforks... well ok that could be fine, but as soon as it's squad of dudes with some super hammer then it does break balance immediately. [/quote]Actually, squads of peasants with spears and leather armor are already overpowered since: -They're way more powerful than 4 (8/12 respectively) individual peasants with spears and leather armor, due to the way attack and defense currently
[quote who="TheProgress" reply="72" id="2736442"] Quoting Werewindlefr, reply 70 Way to make the game even more imbalanced towards squads. What are you talking about?[/quote] https://forums.elementalgame.com/392412 Now, going for quality instead of quantity is even worse.
[quote]Training time increased for the more sophisticated weapons[/quote]Way to make the game even more imbalanced towards squads.
[quote who="Annatar11" reply="25" id="2734431"] Read the rest of the post, maybe? I'm well aware that people were "warning" about it, and I expressed my concern as well. But it's moot. They're a small company, putting off the release for another 6 months was likely not feasible financially. [/quote]Frogboy said that their money was made elsewhere (from windows customization software, if I remember correctly) and that releasing Elemental wasn't critical financially. [quote]</
[quote who="Annatar11" reply="7" id="2734098"] What people never seem to realize is that release dates aren't just spur of the moment things. They're set in stone way, way in advance because there's a lot of competition for retail shelf space. [/quote]Months ago, several people (myself included) did attempt to warn Frogboy against such an early release. We did say that the game would be nowhere near ready on August. The answer was a bit condescending, I must say. Not that I dislike Stard
Go fo warfare: logistics first. It's almost cheating, really.
Everything wrong in that when it unbalances the game to the point it does now. As it is, the first tech one should research in warfare are army techs; the differential in power is so strong between them that the first to get access to parties/squads wins. The thing is, it removes a choice from the game. Why let us build solo units if they're so underwhelming? Where is the epic feel of a few knights on the battle munching through hordes of untrained irregulars? W
[quote who="Annatar11" reply="49" id="2731752"] This is the natural progression of the game. There is literally no way to balance between 1 of "Guy A" and 10 of "Guy A". It can't be done, and it shouldn't be tried. Squads exist to be used and there should not be an expectation that a single trained unit can somehow remain competitive versus a squad of the same unit. [/quote]No, but there should still be some point to doing something else than the biggest available stack. As it is, t
[quote who="Annatar11" reply="46" id="2731675"] The advantage to being in a ground should be: a. pooled hit points, so even if half the guys are killed they heal back up. I don't agree with this. I very much like that once a unit in a squad dies, it's dead. That's how it is at the moment, and that's how it should stay. The advantage of squads should only be that they let you take more men into combat than you could otherwise, nothing else. [/quote]There is actually
[quote]This doesn't make sense to me. I don't understand why 4 guys with 10 hp and defense 5 should be better at defending than a single guy with 40 hp and defense 5.[/quote] Because if you kill 2 of the units in a stack, you have to go against 2 leather armors, not just one. That doesn't mean all armors should stack, but every time damage overflows to the next unit in the stack, then the armor of that next unit should be taken into account. [quote]Of cour
Yes, if it's abstract multiple attacks (or even if it's not), then every time the ogre swings the club to kill a unit in the stack, it encounters a leather armor. Thus, Netriak is right: armour should be counted for every guy that takes damage in the stack, which is far lower than adding the armour value of all guys in the stack, but potentially higher than if the armor was
[quote]I don't see why you need to roll defense again for the second guy.[/quote] Because HIS armor deflects damage directed towards him. The way you're suggesting it should work, it's like the first guy has an armor, and all the others are naked. You're suggesting we make squads weaker than the same number of individuals...
[quote who="Frogboy" reply="20" id="2730740"]Good thread. However, one correction: Parties work as you are requesting. A party of say knights (4) who have a combined attack of 28 do not roll between 1 and 28. They roll between 1 and 7 for each knight. Assuming each knight does say 3 damage to a unit, that would be 12 damage from that party of knights. If the defending unit has a defense of say 16, that party of knights may not do any damage at all.[
The problem is, as it is, the only interesting unit is a group of 16 rednecks with wooden spears and leather armors. Cheap, quick to obtain, and can steamroll dragons.
The way defense currently works, it's very difficult to decide what the defense of a stack should be. -If we multiply defense by the size of the stack, it transforms the unit into a tank. 10 people in leather armor have never been seen in real life to be as tough as a nuclear bomb shelter, so that doesn't make sense. -However, if we count defense only once, then only the first guy in the stack gets an armor. Imagine a dragon doing 30 damage against a group of 4 people with arm
Wait, we're not seeing the python API before, like, November?
Actually, is there a way to change how damage/armor scales with unit size? Having them just stack doesn't make sense to me (10 peasants with club shouldn't be able to one-shot a big monster).