Are people looking for communities? Or Gangs?

There is often a fine line between a "community" and a gang. Some people don't recognize the difference. But there is.

A gang is a self selected group of like minded people who provide unconditional support of one another and consider even relatively minor resistance to their opinions as a great affront that must be attacked.

A gang considers gentle and tolerant behavior between members of the gang but treatment of outsiders can be very nasty, even violent.

The recent melodrama that we saw on the message boards is something that at first looks like just another flamewar.  But looking back on it, what we really have is a confusion between what is a community and what is a gang.

For example, in this recent incident, 3 users, Lady Akasha, Apocalypse67 (to a far lesser extent), and Green Armani, were disgruntled by things they saw on the message boards. Specific behaviors that they considered "unfriendly". But how do you define unfriendly behavior? Well, it seems having looked over their posts, unfriendly behavior is any behavior that disagrees with their points of view.

For instance, in one thread which was yet another complaint about the wallpaper section that, like so many, quickly had one side making baseless accusations against the moderators which eventually got me involved. I said essnetially "I don't care about the wallpaper section. I could care less if any more wallpapers were uploaded." The point of my message was that wallpaper authors do not hold a special leverage. The way we run the wallpaper section is "as-is". Polite discussions on changes are welcomed but threats and peole taking their walls and going are not going to work.

Wallpapers on WinCustomize get more downloads than wallpapers on any other site on the Internet. So we feel justified in the way we run the wallpaper section. I.e. we must be doing something right.

But the response to this was anger and 2 people taking their walls and going because of feeling "insulted". WC was clearly not a "friendly" place.  We don't show "respect" to people here.

All of these words turn out to be code-words for "agreeing with me unconditionally".

All 3 users went to deviantART and proceeded to not just attack WinCustomize in their journals but personally attack the users here and myself specifically with name-calling and the what-not. 

You can see this here:
http://greenarmani.deviantart.com
http://lady-akasha.deviantart.com
http://apocalypse67.deviantart.com

In the Devious comments you can see Lady Akasha and Green Armani saying all kinds of vile things. And yet at the same time, are "disgusted" at the people here and myself in particular. consider that for a moment. I don't recall anyone treating them anywhere nearly as nastily as they are posting over at dA about other people.

In one good example, Green Armani had a problem logging on for some reason. No one had done anything to him. It happens sometimes (not often but it's happened to me too). His first thought was that we had deleted his account for having a differing point of view. He went as far as to imply that the admins of this site are similar to the Nazis and others who would silence dissenters. Except that we had done no such thing. When he managed to log on, several minutes later, no formal apology. Only complaints that he no longer had elite access (which you'll find in every case that these people feel they are entitled to).

But in all of this, the charge is that there is no community here. They're wrong. What we don't encourage here are gangs.  Instead, we value honesty, integrity, objectivity, trust, and fairness. These are the cornerstones of a healthy community. But it's not a gang.

Every once in awhile a community site will find gangs form in their midsts. That is, in my opinion, what we just witnessed.  Such gangs try to impose their views on others and consider any resistance as something to be crushed. the ultimtate code of the gang is that members of the gang are treated with kindness and those outside the gang are treated with utter ruthlessness.

And from reading their posts both here and elsewhere, the ruthlessness and meaness of their personalities has really shown that they don't understand the difference between a community and a gang.

33,421 views 135 replies
Reply #1 Top
One must try and conduct him/her self as if they were talking to their family. If you talk that bad at home then you need to find another place to lurk. All families have disagreements but they get solved politely. Thats how it should be in this community. I don't agree with everything that goes on here, but after my say and the decision is made then I have 2 choices. Live with it or move on. No reason to carry on and on and on in the msgbd about it. My 10 cents (inflation).



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Reply #2 Top

I agree.  I too don't agree with everything I see in the message board.

Which in my case presents 3 choices, either 1) Accept a diversity of opinions, 2) Choose to not participate here and go to other sites instead, or 3) Try to censor opinions I don't like.

1 is not a perfect solution but seems to be the best route to me.

Reply #3 Top
Before I say anything else, it does seem like you are opening those three individuals up for flames by mentioning them by name and linking to their deviantART pages. That's not to say that I agree with their behavior though. Although some people here are sometimes a bit zealous in accusing others of something or misinterpreting their words, I do agree that WinCustomize is a good community.



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Reply #4 Top
They weren’t a gang …It was more like a propaganda campaign conducted by a circle of conspirators … their emotional rhetoric was aimed at the least intelligent of mass. People like that can probably do a lot more damage to the psyche of a message board than can be immediately gauged. Their objective was clearly to rally the emotions of people, claiming injustices that certainly do not even exist. Their purpose was clearly to disrupt and cause damage, and I would not refer to them as a gang…more like a circle of conspirators to disrupt the continuity of a message board, and then to claim a site (which I find a navigational nightmare) better than this one for no reason other than to satisfy some childish vendetta.
Reply #5 Top
Messy Buu, if the truth hurts then one must be doing something wrong. In this case I think those 3 opened things up for themselves. Pointing out what they are doing or saying is not misinterpeting anything. Let the other people see for themselves. As they don't want to be here, then they can't be flamed.



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Reply #6 Top
I think of Wincustomize as a neighborhood. Some people leave, and new people move in. Some you are sorry to see go, and some you would help them pack if it would get rid of them faster. What I think is absolutely pathetic, is coming back to the old neighborhood and telling everyone how much nicer the new neighbors are. That is really "Low Rent". As is, flaming the old neighbors in the new neighborhood.

Sad state, this.
>


Reply #7 Top
Messy buu, this is more like a few threats "in a nut shell".
Reply #8 Top
If you look at Akasha then you will find that she is comfortable enough to spread her thoughts on other profiles like the ones you mentioned here, Brad. The group is larger than you think, but clearly defined. Some have responded on WC already, but it is my guess that others will do so in the near future.
Reply #9 Top
Its a huge shame that it has come to this and the 3 individuals acted the way they did. Their attitude displayed since leaving serves no useful purpose to anyone least of all themselves and if anything shows them for what they really are.
Ultimately they are the losers as they have chosen to leave the best site in the business to display there undoubted talents.
But there we go - now life moves on........
I love the WC Community for many reasons.......for all the good things and the very occassional bad. You cannot have or expect a perfect enviroment and there will always be differences of opinions but i just wish the people concerned had been honest from the start about their gripes or problems. Come to think of it they most probably did not want to and just wanted to make a show.
Anyway life goes on........and WC will go from strength to strength and i would just like to reiterate a thread that was around about a week or so ago and once again say thank you to all the Mods and Admin for all the work you do to keep this a great site. And the biggest thank you to everyone who participates in making this a warm and friendly (well most of the time) COMMUNITY
Reply #10 Top
Ow, btw how I vieuw WC? Like my home, I am not active at other community's and I spend a few hours a day on here. Thats the reason why I try to stay polite, would hate it if I got banned or something
Reply #11 Top
Frogboy, it appears to me after all you when through this weekend you took your time to think things out before making a thread on the subject. I really respect that. I only wish more people would think before they say something every time they post on a thread that has gotten out of control.

Messy Buu, may people already knew what was being said over at DA. If you read what was said then you understand why especially Frogboy had the right to post it here. He was being personally attacked on another site and it was extremely rude and uncalled for.

I read everything from 3 of the posts that went bad this weekend. I kept a very open mind but it was very apparent to me who was casing the trouble.
I still believe the saddest thing is that the new people to the site get involved and really do not know what they are getting themselves into. I do hope that they will realize that people here are kind and will let go what was said by them in haste. They just need to make it known that that is not the way they want to be at all times.
So from me personally to all the newer members that were here this weekend and involved in this. "Please stick around!" This is a wonderful site and believe it or not we do have a lot of un here. And also many of us have enough respect for each other to not let events like this ruin the site for each other.
Reply #13 Top

All 3 journals have been re-written, I guess........ pretty tame now........ ( dangit I missed it) 
I never did figure out exactly what they are unhappy about....... I thought at one time, we might be playing the new game show, "Vague"  





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Reply #14 Top
Not much to see - just ignore them
Reply #15 Top
Koasati, it's not the journals itself that are interesting. It is more the profile comments. There is enough to read.

[Message Edited]
Reply #16 Top
I'm personally disappointed about one of the comments...[not from one of these three mentioned]....considering all the one-on-one care, respect and attention I bestowed upon this individual.....clearly I am a fool.
Reply #17 Top
A fool you are not Jafo. I know what it is like to offer yourself to help another, only to have them turn around and spit in your face.



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Reply #19 Top
#16 by Jafo - 7/28/2003 5:22:17 PM all the one-on-one care, respect and attention I bestowed upon this individual.....clearly I am a fool.



KING LEAR
Blasts and fogs upon thee! Hear me, Nature! If this
creature ever conceives a child, let it stamp wrinkles in
her brow, and turn her pains to laughter and contempt,
so that she may feel how sharper than a serpent's tooth
it is to have a thankless child! Away! Away! I have
one daughter left.
Reply #20 Top

Experience has shown that one can put faith in the average individual to see things as they are. 

I am comfortable with what I've posted on the subject and believe that a reasonable objective person, having read the writings of Green Armani and Lady Akasha will recognize the hypocricy and double standards on their part to come to their own conclusion.

Reply #21 Top
Yon Cassius has a lean and hungry mouth. Such men are dangerous....[I loathed Shakespeare....overrated twaddle]....
Reply #22 Top
negativity begets negativity
begets negativity
begets negativity
begets negativity

are we learning something here?
maybe?
please?
Reply #24 Top
I'm not saying that Frogboy didn't have the right to mention them by name, but it does have potential to add fuel to the fire.



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Reply #25 Top
Et tu, Brute?