WOM... might sound silly, but thank you for stepping up when called and also welcome home very glad you made it...

It is one thing to question or protest the actions of the government, disent is a liberty and a part of freedom, spitting on, throwing ckicken blood on and calling soliders who did their duty and servered their country protecting those same rights of the ones doing the spitting and such...

hell with it, don't mean nothing...

though slapping the crap out of at least one of em might bring a little peace of mind

GA: "I hear that line about oil and all that but does anybody know where the US gets the majority of it's oil?"

Ohh! Ohhh! I can answer that one!
Right from its own backyard. The US gets the majority of her oil from the US.

IPlural

1) On the other side, prove he does have weapons and is not disarming them.

2) Many nations aren't stable, we can't just replace the govermnet in those that aren't. Argentina has been far from stable for a long time and we haven't messed with it. Peru had a huge change of government about a year and are now giving the IMF a big ol' FU. We haven't done anything there.

3) K... I'm not touching that one other than see #2... On this one, I feel a regime change should be made, but I don't think America has the right to decide that. We can't push our values onto the rest of the world. Personally, this is my biggest disgust with Saddam is the complete ignorance of the Iraqi people's suffering.

4) And who's to say our country doesn't sell or give weapons on the black market. We knew Russia used to, but we didn't do anything. Countries around the world participate in the black market.

joe, I agree that most of what Saddam is doing is wrong (IMO), but nearly everything has been concealed to the point that we don't really know exactly what all is happening. The atrocities we do know about, I consider unforgivable, but it's all based on my (White middle-class American and Catholic) values.

One of the premises America was founded on is that people are Innocent Until Proven Guilty. For capital punishment especially, the person must be found guilty UNANIMOUSLY. If Saddam could be convicted unanimously, then why do other nations disagree with the US? If he was proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to have commited atrocities worthy of war, I could actually support the US invading. I don't think there is enough proof to war, and that may change as more information comes out.

drat... I'm a slow typer.... I knew the oil one too...

This conflict isn't just about oil, but I think that is a part of it.

We also get lots of oil from Mexico...

"Personally, this is my biggest disgust with Saddam is the complete ignorance of the Iraqi people's suffering."

oh, please...he knows exactly what's happening to them.

BTW, in case people don't know for sure where I stand, I am not generally for wars. (Look at my name, my icon: , and the fact that I eat a mainly vegetarian diet, wear birkenstocks when it is warm and have a Lava Lamp on my desk.)

*BUT* (there always is one, isn't there?) I also do not believe that a nation that has the power to help another nation should sit back and do nothing. If any nation's people need help, it is Iraq.

I was also reading a report that a lot of people in Iraq were moving into make shift camps on the perimeters of the land. Why were they doing that? Not because they are afraid of the US, but because they feared that Saddam would lash out at the people during this time of crisis. It is also reported that many of the troops in Iraq will not support Saddam. What does that say about the country?

If you need proof that Saddam has WMD's and chemical weapons, then I suggest you read the headlines...he has already stated he will use these supposedly disposed of weapons to fight against an invasion.

Like you said you don't think that the US should force it's views on other parts of the world but how can you then say that it isn't doing anything in other countries where help is clearyly needed. It's almost like the US is damned if it does and damned if it doesn't. Something is not right here.

UHRBid:"drat... I'm a slow typer.... I knew the oil one too..."

I would hope so Wouldn't they throw you out of Texas if you didn't?

well US oil reserves are just that, reserves in case of war, or some such and a dire need, though we do tap into them. Actually oil being a part of it is very real, and very smart in the end, but they need to be open and honest about it. Hitler proved you do not fight a war without OIL, things don't run without gas, bearings freeze up, engines cease up, nope, can not fight squat without oil...

That is what I have ment a number of times when I said they need to be honest, tell it like it is and dealw ith it, don't smoke screen it or put a pspin on it. Like the question about would the USA still occupy Iraq if Saddam and company left, of course we will, but why didn't they say it from the begining? Instead of letting some reporter ask about it and then kicking it around for a bit before stating as much... That opens up to many possible paths for people to get wiggy with it....

Frogboy stated it very concise and on target about Bush and his social skills as a leader

I would go a step further though and say he needs to present things so people feel he is OF the people and not a Bill Gates type of director...

Even if he doesn't like it, he needs to hold peoples hands thorughout this stuff and paint big picture with large text so everyone stays on the same page...

Oh and quit it with pushing the fear button everytime it seems people are falling to the road side in supporting him...

anyway....

I am glad there are extreme pacifist. They balance the vote of the extreme war mongerors. And visa versa. The other night as I was marvelling at all the grey hair on my head I was wondering how many Americans remembered that the Shaw of Iran used to rutinely have disidents dragged from thier homes and had they're lips ripped from their faces and sent home as living reminders of who is right. Some of those people were in lower teens. And they walk down the streets of Iran and Iraq. It is not the Shaw they think of when seeing such people. It is the American money that armed him, and kept him in power for so long.

I watched Bushes speech last night. And although I have plenty of reason to hate his guts, and his father, (loosing medical insurance), I think his actions and 48 hour warning for Saddam and his sons to flee Iraq are a brilliant manuver. Right or wrong, we have to pull the teeth from these tigers. Even if some of the fillings in them are American gold.

the French, Russian and German governments are representing their people that by a huge majority oppose war (as the people of the Spain and the UK). isn´t that what they are supposed to do?

war has to start soon. the time of the "chamsin" (heavy desert winds/storms) is coming and summer is too hot for fighting. we can only hope that those "smart" weapons became a little smarter than they were at the last time. unless the bombing of hospitals was intentional they weren´t that smart when bombing Belgrade (capital of Yugoslavia)


"idiot cheese"? who the heck would want to eat American cheese in Europe ... there´s some excellent food coming from the US, but their cheese ...

"...US is damned if it does and damned if it doesn't. Something is not right here."

- Green Armani


Yeah, that's prolly right. I don't think we have the right to go in, but there is a tug at my conscionse (sp, Jafo?) that tells me we should do something. As to what I'm not sure, and I don't want to make a rash decision like war. As to a good solution, I don't have one still.

I would hope people understand that releasing information before hand can be a double edged sword. You can't rule out that much of the plans for a post Saddam Iraq may or may not have been defined. I will admit that Bush seems to have a lack of venacular skillz but regardless the push for information that the media craves can sometimes risk security.

Semper Fi Teufulhunden!!!

HOORAH!!!

Rusty: Given how things keep going, my stance is very likely to change....

Regardless of my believes though, I will support the US completely if we do go to war (less that 24 hours to go, right?). I may not agree with the by then, but I do think that in the long run, America is in the right, and will do what is needed. I can't stop supporting because I disagree on something...

I support because I belive in the legitimacy of our system; I voted, so I agreeed to abide by the results even if I lost.

on a side: agreed or agreeed?? I was about to just say agree-ed... I hate spelling...

moshi:""idiot cheese"? who the heck would want to eat American cheese in Europe ... there´s some excellent food coming from the US, but their cheese ... "

I agree. "American cheese" sucks
Now, cheese...there is a topic I think we can all love (unless you have a dairy problem or are a strict vegetarian )

"I would hope people understand that releasing information before hand can be a double edged sword."
-Green Armani

I always wondered where some of the info comes from too.... Like all those news braodcasts that tell where our troops are... they always seem like such a stupid thing to do... I mean, I like knowing where they are, but I think our enemy likes knowing much more than me...

mm.... gouda....

Buzz, isn't that Teufelhunde? (no "n")

Semper Fi Teufulhunde "the always faithful marines"

Good thing to remember no matter how you feel about the war......

UHRBid, sometimes there is method to the madness. Think about it. And when you have the creative answer, keep it to your self.

KarmaGirl: Yup... I'm routinely impressed by people who risk life and limb for others... I'm not brave enough to do it for others =/

#264....'conscience'....

in German it would be "Höllenhunde"
in Latin "Cani Inferii" (not 100% sure, long time ago i used Latin the last time.)

and glorifying the military sucks anyways ...