[1.6][BUG] City Defenders do not spawn in subsequent attacks for players

When you attack an AI city, if you attack multiple times, then for every attack, they get a fresh set of the city defenders at their city at full hp. This is true even if you have managed to kill off all city defenders (and fail to take the city).

 

For players though, they only get the city defenders the first time around? Then after that, they get no subsequent defenders for that turn?

 

Should players get the same treatment as AI for city defenders?

 

 

17,786 views 17 replies
Reply #2 Top

Quoting GFireflyE, reply 1


it's a feature.
End of GFireflyE's quote

 

You're kidding right?

Reply #3 Top

Quoting UnleashedElf, reply 2
You're kidding right?
End of UnleashedElf's quote

Sadly, no.  :(

Reply #4 Top

Whether it's a "feature" or not, it's silly, we all know that... and Stardock know it too given it's been raised multiple times and they haven't given a reasonable explanation for it.

I don't think it hurts to bring it up again, never know... might be a chance of getting the feature tweaked in 2.0 or something.

Reply #5 Top

Ah I see. I have been busy with real life and I have not as closely followed this forum.

 

But yeah, there has been no acknowledgement, much less any evidence that there will be an effort to fix this, which is unfortunate.

Reply #6 Top

I'm kind of curious as to whether we could make a workaround via the Modding forum.  Something along these lines...

A unique (one cast per battle) spell that 'Calls' your defenders into action.

This would take all of the 'Auto Summons' out of the core improvements files that creates the defenders, and instead would 'unlock' that spell/ability if you are in a city with that improvement present.  And it could be a 'battle auto cast spell' that happens at the beginning of Combat, but then of course the question is, where do the defenders appear?  Maybe in the 8 squares around the Sovereign?

The upside to this is that you could assign a different 'city defender summons' tech to each faction, so that they each summon their own unique mix of defenders tailored to them.  Say, perhaps Tarth has more Archers in their mix, with one 'Marksman Archer' while Magnar has more Militia, and one 'hulking Brutish Axeman'...

The 'Downside' here will be that you will get a fresh new batch of defenders each time you have a battle.  I suppose you could set up a 'counter stat' or something that is assigned to the Sov, that gets reset at the end of the turn.  When the BattleAutoCastSpell happens, the spell will summon a number of defenders equal to the 'normal' amount minus the amount stored in this counter.

The Downside of this is that I'm not sure there is an easy way to control which cities get affected by this counter.  I.E. you kill 4 defenders in City A, then someone attacks City B, which comes up 4 defenders short.  UNLESS there is some way to create/modify the city stat during combat for that particular city, and the improvement for that city which 'enables' the Autosummons spell resets that counter at the start of the next turn, or perhaps regenerates over a period of turns, reducing the number by 1-2 each turn.  Hmmm, unit count regeneration, I LIKE IT! 

Back to the 'Sov defensive summons stat' approach.  Instead of having city defender count tied to specific cities, each time a city gets an improvement that increases the City Defender count, the Sov's 'CityDefenseSummon Counter' goes up by one.  Every time a unit is killed, the 'CurrentCityDefenderCount' counter is reduced by one.  Each turn, the Sov regenerates the second counter by 1-2, which is then checked against the CityDefenseSummon counter (if it is higher, the second counter is reduced).  This 'counter check' could be in the Spelldef for the various 'Autosummons', hence it is handled the next time you have a combat in a city.  The various Summons spells would then check to see if the number of summons 'they' have in mind is equal to/less than the 'CurrentCityDefenderCount', then they function normally.  If CurrentCityDefenderCount is less, that's the number used that determines the # units that get summoned.

This 'DefenderCount' approach is an interesting way to simulate the Sov shifting defensive assets around to protect his cities, without creating a bunch of new units to move around strategically on the map in the process.  Essentially, the Defense Mashall/Sov 'senses' which cities are in danger, and shifts assets accordingly.

Using the approach above, if you wanted to get real fancy, you'd have 4-6 stats instead of just 2 (AllowedCountMelee, and CurrentDefenderCountMelee, AllowedCountMissile, CurrentDefenderCountMissile, AllowedCountspecials, CurrentDefenderCountSpecials).  This way melee units could be tracked independently from Archers and 'Special Units'.  (Not Special Needs units, although some units might have special needs...)

It's the 'battle is separate from the game map' thing that makes me skeptical r.e. whether you could tie the counter to battle in a specific city.  If level modifiers and such are applied to the City Defenders (can't remember now if they are, or are not), then there may be a way for a 'Battle' to 'See' the city stats for the city they reside in.

As for Mr Guardian Statue or whatever, you could do the 'BattleAutoCastSummons' Counter thing, assign a Strategic Move of 0 to him and make his Summons last strategic 1 turn (e.g. that turn only), or have a counter that 'tracks' his hit points.  At the beginng of the next combat (in the same round of course), deduct the amount stored in the Counter to determine his current hits (if this drops his hits to zero or less, you get to watch him die on turn one of the next battle).  Yeah, this is a messy workaround for Gurardians.  if they have a 1 strategic turn summon duration, 'and if you have 9 units in the city, he or somone else may get 'bumped' out of the city if they are unit 10+.

Or, you could simply argue that he is elsewhere in the City, and the second attack isn't near him.  Yeah, that 'Feature' thing...

Reply #7 Top

@tjashen

 

It'd be a very imperfect solution though. You would need it to scale on improvements, make the defenders disappear, and auto-summon. It'd get complex real quickly.

 

I would like to see some acknowledgement from the dev team on this one.

Reply #8 Top

Any word on whether this has been fixed in 1.7?

Reply #9 Top

Quoting UnleashedElf, reply 8
Any word on whether this has been fixed in 1.7?
End of UnleashedElf's quote

It's still a feature. :(

Reply #10 Top

Yeah it doesn't look like they've acknowledged this at all.

Reply #11 Top

I suspect this 'feature' 'bugs' you as much as it bugs me.  Perhaps this feature has an invisibility spell auto cast engaged whenever posts are actually summoned to the game developers computers?

Reply #12 Top

I think this is really crap don't get me wrong... but how often does it actually occur?  I guess the theory is that if it only comes up ones in a blue moon... then there's probably higher priority issues that need developer time.

I think i've had it happen to me like once ever.  So yeah it sucks but there's probably lots of other things i'd rather see fixed first.  Just looking at it from both sides or whatever.

 

Reply #14 Top

So you think this is by design rather than a bug and the AI gets another bonus?

 

Hmm ... it does seem rather unfair.

 

I suppose this is not fixable than by XML?

 

Reply #15 Top

Quoting UnleashedElf, reply 14

So you think this is by design rather than a bug and the AI gets another bonus?

 

Hmm ... it does seem rather unfair.

 

I suppose this is not fixable than by XML?

 

End of UnleashedElf's quote

Unfortunately not.

Reply #16 Top

No, it is not a feature. It's a joke. It's other way to admit that they just cannot fix this bug.

 

If it were truly by design, it would had been consistent. But, sometimes it happens at second attempt, or 7th attempt, or...... yeah, you should get the clue.

 

Unfortunately and rather remarkably, this does happen even in very first attack (very rarely), even with cities with extra units (not just militia) inside, causing the city to be captured with a single lone spearman, making those extra units scattered around the city. This actually happens more often on AI vs. AI fight, which always make me laugh when a club-holding militia takes a heavily defended fortress with full 9-units maxed defenders.

Reply #17 Top

I attacked a city, cleared most of the militia, and lost.  Then I attacked again with another hero and all the militia are back.

I would like it if: either 1. BOTH human and AI get militia regenerated ALL the time, or 2. BOTH human and AI get militia regenerated NONE of the time.  Personally I prefer 1. as 2. allows the human to sacrifice a useless unit in order to make their proper attack easy.  This rule that is different for AI than human is a copout and I don't accept that it's a good idea for the AI to get this advantage.  Production and research bonuses are one thing.  Endlessly regenerating militia for the AI while all human militia take a holiday after the first battle is not in the realms of an acceptable advantage, and I think almost all people on this forum would agree.

Frogboy, can you please make it so that either 1. or 2. happens (preferably 1.), not a special "I'm the computer and I get special treatment by player type".  This needs to have the same rules for ALL players, no matter who's controlling them.