How should slaves look like?

Quendar often uses very strange units - slaves, who have -10 accuracy, but are armed and armored with best equipment and items. But because of their -10 Accuracy they are of low efficiency.

The main idea of slaves - be cheap cannon fodder for a sovereign.

So should slaves be limited to common weapons and armor? Or limit them just to leather armor and blunt weapons? What penalties should a slave have? Is -1 Attack, -1 Hit point better than -10 Accuracy?

Would it be interesting to make all female units a bit weaker than males but cheaper for all races (but not as cheap as slaves)? May be females could have special female bonuses? Eg. -1Attack, -1Hit point, +1 Initiative, +1 chance of critical hit?

16,229 views 8 replies
Reply #1 Top

The "slave" ability is -1 Hit Point per Level, -10 Accuracy, -4 Initiative, reduced unit build cost (by 20 "points" per unit in the stack), and elimination of the unit wages, not just -10 accuracy.  Personally, I think the accuracy malus isn't nearly as big of a handicap as the initiative malus.

For an upgraded fortress, it can be worthwhile to produce "elite slaves", that at least use armour and a decent weapon, though probably not worth spending crystal on.  Yes, they're fodder, but sometimes you want your fodder to absorb a bit more of the impact.

As far as male/female differentiation, I wouldn't do it unless you're going for an exotic custom race where the differences are extreme.

Reply #2 Top

The main point about slaves is they're free maintenance. So at the start of the game you can train a full stack and still keep taxes low to maximise research and production. Slaves also combine well with the Magnar special abilities from Flesh Bound Tome; when a slave is about to die, cast Cull the Weak to get a significant mana boost. In a tough fight, cast Deathlash to get a buffed unit for one battle only. If you cast Candlecloak then your units are doing damage even when they're being hit, so low Accuracy and Initiative are less of an issue.

At the point where I have enough gold to maintain a "proper" army I stop building slave troops and start building normal units. A full stack of normal troops is just much better than a full stack of slaves, and normal units have a much better chance of surviving to gain levels (and will get better hitpoints when they do). At this point I only use slaves as free maintenance garrison troops, or maybe to fill up stacks I haven't had time or resources to train full strength units for yet. Assuming resources are limited I wouldn't bother spending crystal or iron on them. Leather armour, wooden shields and club class weapons are probably as much as I'd give them.

Assuming slave units keep dying all the time, Underdog is well worth choosing as a Trait as they will be lower level than almost anything. Underdog is a great trait at the start of the game anyway, but even more so if you're building slaves as cannon fodder who die before they go up levels.

Reply #3 Top

I disagree with making female have different stats than male units.

Slaves are fine.  There is no reason to change those either.  It's not like you can't order a slave to suit up in plate mail.

The accuracy penalty is barely noticeable since roughly everything has low dodge and the buildings and commanders give tons of accuracy.

The initiative penalty does hurt a lot, though.

I just use them for city garrison units.

Reply #4 Top

Slaves should basically be your cheap fodder that support your main troops. Mostly they would never use heavy armor but I guess if you have so much metal that you already have all your normal troops equipped then it wouldn't hurt.

Just don't be like the AI and build swarms of slave archers...

Reply #5 Top

Quoting merlinme, reply 2
The main point about slaves is they're free maintenance.
End of merlinme's quote

Agree. For this bonus their penalties should be noticable.

Quoting Raiddinn, reply 3
The accuracy penalty is barely noticeable since roughly everything has low dodge and the buildings and commanders give tons of accuracy.
End of Raiddinn's quote

Imho, he game is rather unbalanced in Accuracy/Dodge question. I've already reduced all ways of obtaining high accuracy in my mod, so -10 Accuracy for me now means that the unit is almost useless.

Quoting merlinme, reply 2
Underdog is a great trait at the start of the game
End of merlinme's quote

Agree.

Quoting DsRaider, reply 4
Slaves should basically be your cheap fodder that support your main troops.
End of DsRaider's quote

I think their role is to die instead of main troops. AI attacks those units which have less defence, so these should be the slaves. For this they should be quick and fast with Charge, Fast and yes - Underdog.

 

Reply #6 Top

If slaves are meant to represent the peasants /serfs conscripted in the medieval era to fight using like pitchforks 'alongside'  professional troops, then their role and function is to be cannon fodder.  That being the case - I think the game should severely restrict the weapons and armor they may equip.  Armor restricted to a max of basic leather, weapons to the tools used in their labor (like hoes, pitchforks, etc.).

If 'slaves' are meant to represent an actual class of sentient folks trained in warcraft, but ingrained to live with very limited freedom, then their use of bows and heavier armor makes sense.  Consider the practices of the City State of Sparta in the Classical Greek era.  Male children were taken from their birthparents and raised in military barracks, trained to be soldiers.  They were slaves in the sense that they had few choices, choices severely circumscribed by their narrowly focused training / upbringing.  So, empires that enshrine slavery as a foundational aspect of their societies certainly would have 'malleable' soldiers who would fight better than farmers / serfs conscripted right off the farms.  Its a game, and the current options allow a player to role-play either of these choices, and the many shades in between.  I mostly play Kingdoms.  May I ask those of you who play empires, what combination of traits, equipment, etc., would you suggest to create troops to represent these two pools of 'troops?'

Reply #7 Top

@ElanaAhova - if you read the description text for Magnar's various slave units, they are not of Quendar stock (under the covers their race is actually "Krax", though they don't get the benefits of the blood) and there are two basic varieties:

  • Captured enemy soldiers or other trained fighters.  These are the 'elite' as far as slaves go, but they're still (per the flavor text) generally used as shock troops.
  • Basic slave troops, i.e. any farmer/innkeeper/miner etc. issued a club and told to "fight or die".  Pure fodder, though apparently including some archer units.

That said, per the backstory, the "normal" Magnar units could be the equivalent of the "Spartan-style inculcated into the military lifestyle from birth" units as they were the slave armies of the titans before the titans' demise.

Reply #8 Top

Quoting ElanaAhova, reply 6
what combination of traits, equipment, etc., would you suggest to create troops to represent these two pools of 'troops?'
End of ElanaAhova's quote

Rage, Charge, Underdog, may be Brute. Leather armor. Blunt weapons. No magic rings or amulets. May be mounted.

Spartan type units may have Accuracy, Balance, Fast, Constitution or Muscle traits.