What is the difference between Champions and Henchmen?

I am currently playing as a kingdom of men, with access to the henchmen technology, and the decalon, and I have a couple of questions.

I know that champions have their own list of often unique traits, but henchmen appear to gain access to enough traits to be comparable in effectiveness to a champion.

Henchmen also appear to gain all the "Trained Units gain" buffs from the town they are trained in.

Are henchmen functionally identical to champions in all other respecs?

 

As a follow up question:

I can design a henchmen with a full set of leather armour, relevant magic items, and the traits +25% exp, +2 initiative and life magic, then I can give him a set of decalon (apprentice in each element). This seems like you can custom make a cheap, specialist hero really quickly.

Is henchmen overpowered or am I confused as to how useful it is?

27,765 views 16 replies
Reply #1 Top

Henchmans real difference is they do not divide combat xp. The code basically tells the game they are for all intesive purposes champions.

One could set the Henchmen to be unable to learn any of the elemental spells (I think is an appropriate nerf to their abilities, as they are supposed to be lesser champions)

You are not confused about anything. Henchmen are supposed to do exactly what you suggest and why Altar in general is a very good faction to play.

Reply #2 Top

Henchman are pretty much superheroes. You can crank them out as level 6 (+4 from a fortress building and veteran) heroes with extra traits and city enchantment bonuses from the right fortress, except they are team players without the XP split. A party of 9 henchman level twice as fast as a party of two heroes.

Reply #4 Top


Crusade does not work for Henchmen, other than that:

 

Henchmen. Rule.

 

That is all.

Reply #5 Top

I have no idea what the argument against removing the champion XP split is with henchman in the game. This is a super powered faction in that they can produce hero-plus troops for twenty fame a pop, but that these troops are immune to the split and champions aren't makes champions look like towel-boys. Why overshadow such a prominent game mechanism like that? 

There is no argument about ruining game balance by taking out the split while henchman are in the game. You can do things with henchman that are ridiculous sheerly because of the level they can start at, the number of them you can produce, and how quickly you can produce them. Heroes come slow, are pre-leveled in a way you may not like, and because of the split are just a pain to manage in comparison. So they tend get parked in cities for a nominal unrest bonus. The most underwhelming part of the game is when you get a surprise champion from a quest, which is supposed to be a wow moment, and instead you just have to spend 20 or so turns building up an army for them, if you even bother. Why is that the desired design? What does Stardock have against their legendary heroes that they make them look like chumps to henchman?

I wrote a big thread arguing against the split and the best answer anyone could come up with is play Altar. Why can't other factions have fun heroes too?

Reply #6 Top

Quoting Burress, reply 5

I have no idea what the argument against removing the champion XP split is with henchman in the game. This is a super powered faction in that they can produce hero-plus troops for twenty fame a pop, but that these troops are immune to the split and champions aren't makes champions look like towel-boys. Why overshadow such a prominent game mechanism like that? 

There is no argument about ruining game balance by taking out the split while henchman are in the game. You can do things with henchman that are ridiculous sheerly because of the level they can start at, the number of them you can produce, and how quickly you can produce them. Heroes come slow, are pre-leveled in a way you may not like, and because of the split are just a pain to manage in comparison. So they tend get parked in cities for a nominal unrest bonus. The most underwhelming part of the game is when you get a surprise champion from a quest, which is supposed to be a wow moment, and instead you just have to spend 20 or so turns building up an army for them, if you even bother. Why is that the desired design? What does Stardock have against their legendary heroes that they make them look like chumps to henchman?

I wrote a big thread arguing against the split and the best answer anyone could come up with is play Altar. Why can't other factions have fun heroes too?
End of Burress's quote

The XP split is not that it will unbalance the game, it is more so that it will make Altar less unique as a race. Your playstyle with all other races will begin to incorporate a hero stack, while this is truely Altar's legacy and notable difference as a race, the hero stack.

I also don't seem to have your problem with heroes being parked at the nearest town when adventuring. I tend to have quite a lot of fun with the heroes.

Reply #7 Top

I too was puzzled about why henchmen were so much better than heroes when I played Altar (that was back in FE but the same basics applied).

Henchmen are a cool idea but they need to be balanced appropriately so that in a part of a couple of heroes and several henchmen the heroes are still, well, legendary!

Reply #8 Top

If you think about it Janusk is sort of a henchman to Relias.  It also make sense for them to just not have the ability to use the magic books and only have access to the adept trees at unit training.  I like the idea of a hero stack for Altar it makes them the adventuring faction, which follows their traits.

Reply #9 Top

IIRC, another disadvantage for henchmen is that their spell books are limited.  Not really a big deal, all things considered.  I think if they could die (which is in a Parrotmath mod, I believe) they would be fine.

 

Reply #10 Top

They can use the spellbooks from the Decalon trait.

Reply #11 Top

Henchmen are created with the Rush ability.

Their initial spell traits are limited to just 3.   For example, you don't get Life Apprentice but Life Adept (Aid, Heal, Growth)

They have another advantage that I will not reveal.  If I do, you all will want to nerf it.

The disadvantage is that it costs fame and gildar to create them; and usually crystal and metal.  You also need to do significant Research before they are available.   Same with the Decalon to give them spellbooks.

Reply #12 Top

Fuzzygold if you are referring to the fact that equipment created with a Henchman can be sold/traded and not lost it has already been reported by .

Reply #13 Top

Quoting parrottmath, reply 6


The XP split is not that it will unbalance the game, it is more so that it will make Altar less unique as a race. Your playstyle with all other races will begin to incorporate a hero stack, while this is truely Altar's legacy and notable difference as a race, the hero stack.

I also don't seem to have your problem with heroes being parked at the nearest town when adventuring. I tend to have quite a lot of fun with the heroes.
End of parrottmath's quote

That is bad prioritization, if the purpose is to preserve the uniqueness of the Altar race. That is making an integral part of the game a pain in the butt so it can be fun with 1 out of 10 the races. It is also completely unnecessary. The fact that you can play Altar and not even try very hard to have 3 times or more as many henchman/champions as any other race will keep them notable for their hero stacks. The bonuses they can get from turning unlimited henchman in to gildar/research towns unto themselves trump any other faction's racial abilities alone, but the combat strategies you can use with super-leveled henchman armies blow any semblance of game balance out of the water.

I don't know what you do with your heroes, so I can't comment on the fun you have with them.

 

 

Reply #15 Top

Quoting halmal242, reply 12
Fuzzygold if you are referring to the fact that equipment created with a Henchman can be sold/traded and not lost it has already been reported by Chaosti.
End of halmal242's quote

Not referring to that.

 

Reply #16 Top
Devouring their souls with your sovereign to cheaply bookstrap magic skills? I mean you need Decalon, and some way of gaining them XP, so its not exactly massively easy, but its a cheap way to get lots of spells on your sovereign without having to burn 16 levels on elemental skills.