Crazy suggestion for tactical casting times

from Elemental Forums

I really like the concept of casting times, mostly because it allows the possibility of counter spells.  Also, it gives you a choice of a small effect now, or a larger one later.

 

The downside is that spell casters don't get to move very often, and with the speed of combat its unlikely they get more than a spell or two off.

It also means that you can't really have long casting times, since that unit would be a sitting duck.

 

What if the spell execution did not use the spellcasters turn?   Basically, the spell would become its own unit in the initiative order.  

 

The spell caster could then use its next turn to cast more spells or do whatever it likes.  

 

I like the idea that caster sets the spell in motion, but then it takes on a life of its own.   It might take awhile for that first fireball to land, but the next one will be right behind it.   

It still leaves ample opportunity for counters as well.  

 

Another thing that could be nice is that when the spell's turn comes up, you have the option to delay it again.  Perhaps it costs some mana, but it would give you some flexibility and depth to the combat.   For example,  it would be nice to cast a counterspell and have it waiting for you to execute, as opposed to getting lucky that there is a spell to counter.   Also, holding off for a turn before releasing the fireball can give you a chance to maneuver all the units a bit.

 

 

I think the net result would be more spells flying around, and also it will give the developers more flexibility in making longer casting times.

 

Thoughts?

 

13,361 views 6 replies
Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top


Mages are already the best of the classes, imo, can't see making them even more powerful. The current system seems to be pretty close to alright, and as far as mages not getting to move much, I have to disagree. In my games, I almost exclusively play a Mage, and he is generally the fastest unit on the field. With a good commander along, it's not uncommon to cast 2 spells in the same round, that's pretty potent.

SoundPackager - Customize the Windows sound scheme
Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top

mages don't wear armor and - unless you happen to find a decent staff with mage stats - they don't really care about the weapon in their hand, so you just give em a +3 init dagger or something and put them on a warg and they get even faster. the idea may not be bad, but as gandalf pointed out, mages are probably the class with the least issues (and non-mages rarely use spells with cast time, in my games at least)

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

If you have to cast a 1-2 turn spell (if there's no other caster in enemy army to interrupt it and waste your turn), you first move as far to back row then start casting while rest of your units create a protective shield around you.

The design of AoE Damage spells is risk vs reward. How you position / manuever troops and predict enemy movement, to get a good cast off is part of your planning. That's why they do damage to everything in area of effect - so there is a drawback and you don't spam fireball / blizzard when armies clashed together in melee range (or you do and kill your own units, intended for a decisive strike - win, or clumsy :D).

Interrupting a spell cast: either successfully land the counterspell (which implies that your spell mastery is high enough to beat enemy spell resistance, which is not always possible - most likely not realistic since is easier to stack spell resist than spell mastery - can get to 90+ spell resist in mid game with some planning and some luck, while you will have a hard time breaking 130 spell mastery in same time), which is again RNG as nothing is 100% proof in the game, there is always a chance to land the spell or fail it (3% and 97% are the boundaries), OR you can bash / knockdown the caster. Bash - is a chance based on attacker atk, requires melee range etc. If  the caster wears boots (the magic ones that give immunity to prone effects) or is mounted (again immunity to prone) then what do you do? So literally, outside of luck, you can't stop a well built mage from finishing a cast - except killing him before he finishes the cast :)

Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top

You guys have some great points.

 

I guess I didn't want to make mages more powerful, it was more to help the developers stop trend of the reducing casting time for spells.   The idea occurred to me after noticing that they reduced some casting times in the latest release notes.  The jump in power between a 0 casting time and 1 casting time is huge.  It effectively 1/2s the dps, and also makes it uncounterable.   I would rather see spells default to a 1 or 2 turn casting time, and 0 cast times would be the exception.   This is not possible to do in the current system without crippling mages completely.

 

In fact, I would love to see fireball upped to a 3 or 4 turn cast time.  It would give regular troops a chance against a fast moving mage, but that mage would still take an active part in the fight.

 

Its not feasible in the current system.  With the proposed change, it becomes an option.  

 

You could even create spells with a 10 turn casting time.  I could see that being fun.  Basically, you have 10 turns to kill/interrupt the mage or something nasty happens.    This becomes more fun if the caster isn't sitting in the corner doing nothing else.

 

I guess I would like to see more of an interplay of slow building spells, counter spells and tactical movement/targeting.

 

 

I can also imagine a NPC having an overly powerful summoning spell, but it has a long casting time.  It gives the player a time crunch to defeat that monster before the spell goes off.   It not only creates a very different dynamic for that combat, it is also a good way to mitigate kiting and other cheese.

 

Anyway, I thought maybe this proposed system takes the intent of the casting time, and makes it more practical than the current system.

 

 

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top

The idea is you can only lower the cast time by 1 turn. Most powerful spells (kill, aoe damage etc) have 2 turns cast time. If you go that route you can't pick other talents you would have picked otherwise.

For example you go straight for -1 on cast times, I get Air Elemental level 12. You start your cast, and I spawn an elemental on top of you knocking you prone (or anyone else nearby) then he 1-2 shots you before you get a chance to cast :)