0.9 campaign feedback

Seriously, who thought this was OK?

 

There's two spots where you can settle; one of them gets you swarmed by hostile randoms that you have no chance of being able to beat early, so already there's a 50/50 chance of a forced restart if you don't have prior knowledge of the map.  Then, if you take the other, you're stuck to 1 city forever and can't do shit.  There's literally nothing to do; there's no way to take down that Yithril camp to the west between them having two cities to your one and the defenders advantage in cities (I still maintain that city militia in their current form are waaaay too strong for the early game since there's no way you can attack cities at all until you've gone through most of the tech tree, but it's even more ridiculous here), and there's literally nothing else on the map to do, with no spots able to be settled.

 

Why is the random map generator able to create more playable maps than hand-built maps?

15,173 views 12 replies
Reply #1 Top

I really didnt have the problems your describe!

 

First, the first quest hut on the map gives you another unit (I would recommend taking an archer), when I played it there were also some Panca archers around. Especially with those, the Syndicate becomes very beatable. If you settle the 2 2 essence spots, you can, by snaking a bit, actually add in a 3rd 5/3 city on the river between them. 

 

 

 

Reply #2 Top

hmm that's funny. i thought it was just the other way around - i found it too easy, personally (i think world difficulty in the scenario is set to normal and i play the "sandbox" game on expert).

i think an "options" button at the start that lets you adjust world and AI difficulty (maybe also tech and production pacing?) would resolve that problem. new/casual players can move it down a notch or two if they find it too unforgiving and nerds can get more of a challenge.

Reply #3 Top

I Definately support Azunai_'s idea here.

Reply #4 Top

I agree i am finding it very easy so far - right now i have 8 cities.

Reply #5 Top


I like the idea of being able to adjust any/all settings for the scenario, but I also understand that it's likely meant to be a bit easier than the level of difficulty many experienced 4X gamers would initially choose.

Reply #6 Top

Quoting Mightypeon, reply 1

I really didnt have the problems your describe!

 

First, the first quest hut on the map gives you another unit (I would recommend taking an archer), when I played it there were also some Panca archers around. Especially with those, the Syndicate becomes very beatable. If you settle the 2 2 essence spots, you can, by snaking a bit, actually add in a 3rd 5/3 city on the river between them. 

 

 

 
End of Mightypeon's quote

It's not the syndicate units that kill me; it's the bandit general a bit to the North.  As soon as he's visible through the fog of war, I get constantly swarmed by units that have initiative that I can't beat, and will always kill a unit turn 1 by running up and using the blunt special.  And I can't even come close to killing the bandit general (142 attack right at the start of the game, lulz).

 

When I tried settling to the South, Tarth immediately took the other spot.  And then proceeded to sit on their ass and make no attempt at doing anything.  Gotta love that your allies literally only hurt you.

Reply #7 Top


I usually get three cities right off the bat, directly west from the frog altar you'll see a 4/3/2, following the road northeast from there and on the east of the road is another 4/3/2 then following the road again head north, across the river, and find a third 4/3/2 all easily attainable before anyone else takes them. Each is right next to a forest and river. Kraxis always ends up converting the northernmost city and then Pariden wins it back, you have to be real quick stop them.

Reply #8 Top

Do you mean the Syndicate big guy in the max level syndicate fort? I would stay away from him for a while, unless you get really unlucky he shouldnt leave the fort though. I did not see Bandit lord, unless you mean the questspawn and the boss there has a broadsword iirc.

At least in my games, on the road East toward Yithril you can also recruit some brothers Sparos, I would recomend to do so. Clever use of fortify (fortify, move out, move someone who can take some hits on the forted spot, he will benefit from it all right) is often sufficient to neutralize the Big Bash attack.

And its really strange to have an enemy combination of "initiative that I cant beat" with "blunt special". Your Sov has air, turn the first northern city into a fortress, get aura of grace, and design, depending on available tech, either spearmen or sword and shield guys with the "initiative", Finesse, and one other trait (something defensive, like the dodge trait, or the hitpoint trait, would help a lot. That should give you an initaitve advantadge of up to 7 or so.

Syndicate mobs usually have an assassin, who runs forward and then gets mobbed by your guys without much problems.

Also, some Syndicate guys have a pretty high amount of defence. Note that this defence happens because they have the "defender" skill, once in combat (after attacking something or using a skill) their defence will drop.

Are you only using stock units?

 

 

 

Quoting Cynical304, reply 6


Quoting Mightypeon, reply 1
I really didnt have the problems your describe!

 

First, the first quest hut on the map gives you another unit (I would recommend taking an archer), when I played it there were also some Panca archers around. Especially with those, the Syndicate becomes very beatable. If you settle the 2 2 essence spots, you can, by snaking a bit, actually add in a 3rd 5/3 city on the river between them. 

 

 

 

It's not the syndicate units that kill me; it's the bandit general a bit to the North.  As soon as he's visible through the fog of war, I get constantly swarmed by units that have initiative that I can't beat, and will always kill a unit turn 1 by running up and using the blunt special.  And I can't even come close to killing the bandit general (142 attack right at the start of the game, lulz).

 

When I tried settling to the South, Tarth immediately took the other spot.  And then proceeded to sit on their ass and make no attempt at doing anything.  Gotta love that your allies literally only hurt you.
End of Cynical304's quote

Reply #9 Top
I also had no problem getting established. I took the archer, and went and founded what became my primary fort. I kept away from the nasty HQ, and went west. Did quests, and nailed any 'scouts' from the HQ. The big scare was all the giant trogs. Their 10 foot long axes were wielded like sushi knives on my troops... oye (fun to watch after the initial scare wore off.
Reply #10 Top

when you settle in the northern location (4/3/2 tile), it's possible to get two more cities to the south on the river (i put one on the bend of the river on a 3/4/0 tile with forest and a nearby clay pit (this became my main fortress), and this location allowed me to settle a decent town on the western end of the river (5/3/0 tile). those 3 cities should be enough to get you started; clear the ogre(or troll?)/mire skath lair near the second city soon, behind them you find 2 gold mines.

when you spread north, you can plop another 1-2 decent cities on near the northern river (halfway between tarth and carrodus). you have to kill a river slag for the second city (lost my starting spearman and militia in that fight grrr).

combat wise, i picked the defender unit, later got the panca archers and made my first champion a defender (my relias was a warrior in that game); with two brickwalls, some range dps and a powerful warrior champ, the syndicate clowns were a cakewalk. once my fortress was done with the basic production and training buildings, i built a few custom spearmen and conquered the yithril enclave. i probably could have started my invasion at that point, but i decided to explore the western continent for a while first and get at least daggers and bows ;)

don't forget to sign trade and economy treaties with your allies (especially the trade treaties - 40% boost to your income is huge); and sign non aggression pacts when they are willing to give you cash for it. when you get to literacy, also sign tech treaties (2-3 coclaves with the 40% boost from 4 tech treaties will get you trhough the relevant parts of the each tree in no time)

after fooling around for a while, i filled up the armies of my champions with new short sowrdsmen and longbow archers and started my invasion; along the way, i picked up longsowrds and later yew bows. resources seem rather scarce on this map, so designing units that don't require much iron/crystal seemed like a good plan. my main designs were swordsmen (to serve as "tanks") whith best sword/best shield, full leather armor, defensive, finesse, ironskin; and archers with accuracy and fury (and one of the dodge traits i think) i gave the archers soldiers boots & gloves, otherwise full leather armor. i had 3 full amries of those units (initially at army size 4, later upgraded to 5/6)

by the time i killed of resoln and kraxis, my units were pretty much fully upgraded and i was done with civ and warfare tech, so i filled the magic tree next; spell of making (for titans' call - great for getting reinforcments to the other continent!) and third book (for the starfall strategic spell) were quite useful for the seemingly endless waves of yithril juggernauts and useless slave armies.

won't spoil the end of the campaign. if you make it that far, the game is won anyway - you just have to conclude it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Reply #11 Top

Cynical-

Just try again, it's very do-able. 

Reply #12 Top

Quoting Mightypeon, reply 8

Are you only using stock units?

End of Mightypeon's quote

At this point in the game, yes.  As the game goes on, I change the weapons/armor to reflect what I've researched. 

My last random game, I tried messing around with traits a bit (stacked every +init boost I could find, and combined that with "Frozen Bones" to attack cities easily), but it's hard to know whether I'm being effective with that or not.


 

Quoting davrovana,
Just try again, it's very do-able.
End of davrovana's quote

I've tried three times, and wasn't able to get past the early game on any of those attempts.  I don't really have any desire to see the same early game for a fourth time.

 

Right now, there is not enough settleable land in the area near where you start, as evidenced by the "well, if you pick this one square, you'll be able to plop down three cities if you snake just right".  Most players aren't going to know what that one tile is, nor are they going to snake (hell, I don't snake).  Oh, and the campaign will be the first thing they do as raw beginners.  The patch notes in .91 indicate that the crazy amounts of neutral hostiles have probably been fixed, but that still doesn't fix my other complaints about the campaign as it stands now.